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Using Addons = cheating?

MScoMSco Posts: 44Member ✭✭
edited April 2014 in General Discussion
Autoclickers are obviously cheating. That is self-explaing in my opinion.
But is it also cheating for example to use coockie master without autoclick feature?
Have a look at my two Addons MSco Stats and Real Perfect Idling: https://github.com/MSco/RealPerfectIdling

The Addon MSco Stats gives some Extra Stats and fixes the two game-breaking bugs in 1.9. The Addon Real Perfect Idling simulates cookies earned and cookies sucked while the game is closed. It calculates the amount of time between now and the last time the game was saved. All features are simulated exactly like in the original game.

Please feel free to give me your feedback and suggestions.

Comments

  • QokoQoko Posts: 287Member ✭✭
    edited April 2014
    MSco said:

    Autoclickers are obviously cheating. That is self-explaing in my opinion.
    But is it also cheating for example to use coockie master without autoclick feature?

    Timers have been thoroughly discussed: it is a grey area considering you don't have to make any effort of lining up cookies and Reindeer for Eldeers or to check for spawned cookies in One Mind. On the other hand, keeping CC minimized so that you always have cookies and deers in view is an accepted practice, so for those that plays with tabs usually consult to timers. I stopped using CM after it no longer got officially updated and play the game on and off without addons.

    As for calculations: what the addon or external sites offer are comparable to making a personal spreadsheet (although a bit time consuming) and are therefore ok-ish. A good site for optimilisation is Riimu's Optimizer, which can even be of help with CM active.

    Tl;dr, it is based on personal consideration. As I do not always have CC on, playing with timers is not really cheating in my eyes, as I lose many cookies during idle periods anyway... I still stopped using them, though.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,188
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    I had a dream my life would be
    So different from this hell I'm living
    So different now, from what it seemed
    Now life has killed the dream I dreamed
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod
    Zyzzyzus said:

    I use a mod I made to show HCs earned and the total cookies in the wrinklers. Some would probably consider this cheating. I think mods that just show extra stats/info aren't cheating. But any automation is.

    Cookie Master is probably a bit too far for me though. Showing timers and the best building to buy is a bit too helpful to not be cheating.

    Well, "best" building falls under extra stats, IMO. Especially considering that CM doesn't consider if it's a good time to push for next upgrade unlock.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,188
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    I had a dream my life would be
    So different from this hell I'm living
    So different now, from what it seemed
    Now life has killed the dream I dreamed
  • TinDragonTinDragon Posts: 8Member
    edited April 2014
    With the exception of what Shylight mentioned (pushing ahead for next upgrade) most efficient purchasing tends to be that once you have all the buildings roughly in line with each other (Prism x10 that of AC, AC x10 that of Time Machine, TMs were like x13.3 of Portals or something like that pre-QoL) you just go down the line and buy one of each. I wouldn't consider that cheating, or at least I hope it's not, I got sick of doing the math manually so on my ~10th reset I started using Riimu's thing. (That site also has the added benefit of saving all of my exported games, in case something goes horribly wrong.)

    I wouldn't really consider using timers as cheating either, since technically you could just watch the clock or build your own, but personally I choose not to.
  • SuperTSuperT Posts: 320Member ✭✭
    If you can cheat without using cookie master, then you can also cheat using it.

    If you like cookie master so much then I'm not going to stop you.

    I'm certainly not using it, but that's because my computer can't handle both cookie master while I'm browsing.

    And, if you're using it to make playing CC easier, then, technically, you could call it cheating. The fact that you have the feeling that it seems wrong confirms that you find it cheating as well.

    It doesn't matter me much, but please don't brag on it? :P
  • HartogHartog Posts: 123Member ✭✭
    Timers are cheating in my book. But we all set our own rules to abide. If people with times consider themselves legit that's fine with me.
  • AnterakAnterak Posts: 193Member ✭✭
    I'm cheating my way with CM for 1 reason :
    I play at CC from work.
    I can't really check my watch every 2 minutes, or set a sound timer, because I don't have an individual office. So just watching the browser doesn't disrupt much my work (and the way I do it obviously)
    And of course, I can't spam click during Click Frenzy or Elder Frenzy, for the same reason. So I set an automatic 10 click-per-second (To stay on par with human speed), and don't attract too much attention. :P
  • StintheBeastStintheBeast Posts: 1,868Member, Cool ✭✭✭
    Anterak said:

    I'm cheating my way with CM for 1 reason :
    I play at CC from work.
    I can't really check my watch every 2 minutes, or set a sound timer, because I don't have an individual office. So just watching the browser doesn't disrupt much my work (and the way I do it obviously)
    And of course, I can't spam click during Click Frenzy or Elder Frenzy, for the same reason. So I set an automatic 10 click-per-second (To stay on par with human speed), and don't attract too much attention. :P

    I play from work as well but I'm limited to a trackpad. I run a business by myself but I'm not gonna bring my Razer mouse to work haha People would think it was a spaceship. And yes, I'm a Razer AND Apple "fanboy" you could call it. I hate that term because I actually like their quality products and never pay full price. One phrase could describe me. "I find deals"
    I buy stuff

    "911 what is your emerganc... hold on got an Elder Frenzy... "~sounds of frantic clicking - BasketofPuppies
  • erdbeereerdbeere Posts: 3,384Member, Helpful ✭✭✭✭✭
    Judging from the description of the add-on achievement ("Use an add-on. Some find vanilla to be the most boring flavor."), I'd say Orteil sees using add-ons as cheating.
  • KarmaTheAlligatorKarmaTheAlligator Posts: 576Member ✭✭
    erdbeere said:

    Judging from the description of the add-on achievement ("Use an add-on. Some find vanilla to be the most boring flavor."), I'd say Orteil sees using add-ons as cheating.

    Not vanilla doesn't equates to cheating, though. An add-on that only change the icons, for example, isn't cheating, yet isn't vanilla either.
  • MasterSparkyMasterSparky Posts: 14,633Member, Internet Detective, Helpful, Flagger, Idle Game Master, Conversationalist ✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • nearsidernearsider Posts: 15Member
    I actually made a spreadsheet to calculate building efficiency, CPS, and banks required for things. Since I did the calculations myself I don't considering it cheating to use CM to do the same thing without having to go to a separate program.

    I do use timers and sounds which is maybe stretching things, but it lets me multi-task better so I can just switch to the window when the beep goes off.
  • CookiewoodstockCookiewoodstock Posts: 16,175Member, Flagger ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2014
    According to purists, yes. Also, asking on the forum is cheating. Close your dashnet. Having an account on dashnet is cheating too. Clicking is cheating too. So is buying buildings. Also, having 1 baked all time makes you a cheater. Opening cookie clicker is cheating. Opening your browser to play cookie clicker is cheating too. Opening you browser is cheating. Opening ANY computer app is cheating. Powering on your PC is cheating. Your computer is cheating. All computers are cheating. Every electronic is cheating. Having a cookie IRL is cheating. Having ingredients for cookies is cheating. Having food is cheating. Having life necessities is cheating. Having your necessary limbs is cheating. Having your whole body is cheating. Having a body is cheating. Having a fetus is cheating. Even being born dead as a stillbirth, or being a miscarriage is cheating. Being sperm in an egg is cheating. Being born in general is cheating. Having physical existance altogether is cheating, actually. Having a soul is cheating. Having no soul (in a literal AND metaphorical sense, that is) is cheating too. Existing is cheating. Not existing is cheating.

    Existence itself is cheating.

    The 'Purists' are still cheating.
    The true purists were never conceived.
    They are a fragment of nonexistence thought up by man, and they are thought to exist.
    They're ALWAYS thought to exist.

    But they've never existed.
    And they never will.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,188
    edited April 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    I had a dream my life would be
    So different from this hell I'm living
    So different now, from what it seemed
    Now life has killed the dream I dreamed
  • autoclickautoclick Posts: 220Member ✭✭
    I didn't count it cheating when I didn't use autoclicker. Also the short numbers are much more simple than those 2,523,234,234,234,235,432,645.46 cookie amounts.

    Well now I've used autoclicker some time and I don't really care that it's cheating. I'm not playing against anybody on cookie clicker :)
    sgull coocie's
  • 32_Footsteps32_Footsteps Posts: 138Member ✭✭
    There's not really any point to discussing this. Who cares? I wouldn't find it fun to use an add-on program, but I'm not you.
  • ImStylinOnYaBroImStylinOnYaBro Posts: 398Member ✭✭
    the pros have a 6th sense that they use to click a golden cookie or get ready to click one just before it appears. your brain gets the timing ingrained into it.
  • StintheBeastStintheBeast Posts: 1,868Member, Cool ✭✭✭
    edited April 2014

    the pros have a 6th sense that they use to click a golden cookie or get ready to click one just before it appears. your brain gets the timing ingrained into it.

    I'm glad you use the term Pro lol

    I find it sad actually that I have the timing down so much, I can switch back to my CC tab and know the cookie will spawn within 5 seconds. It's actually muscle memory. This game ruined my life :P
    I buy stuff

    "911 what is your emerganc... hold on got an Elder Frenzy... "~sounds of frantic clicking - BasketofPuppies
  • beast404beast404 Posts: 141Member
    I can't understand why anyone would use something to help them automatically. I mean, the game already rewards you for simply leaving it on.

    I guess having a pure file is fun for me. In my mind, if you cheat a little, where do you draw the line? And why there? Like when people use an auto clicker to get them golden cookies and to click on clicking frenzies, but only put it so fast so that it's not REALLY cheating… If I was cheating I'd ruin the game for myself in no time.

    But hey, it's a single player game, so whatever floats your boat, do that.

    Just because you can't understand why someone else enjoys something a certain way doesn't mean they have to do it your way.
  • SuperTSuperT Posts: 320Member ✭✭
    Of course it's cheating.

    What's your excuse not to play vanilla?

    (And no, I'm not going to stop you cheat at the game. Lol, even if you cheat at school, I don't care. Other people might though.)
  • weezyweezy Posts: 101Member
    edited April 2014
    Thread TL;DR. It is what it is. I'm just playing with myself so do what ever feels good.

    In other words part of what make CC special is you have some degree of control over the game in order for it to play more to what you like to do. You decide if it is cheating or not
  • DinkydauDinkydau Posts: 29Member ✭✭
    Using the console or a program that extracts or modifies information from cookie clicker in any way is cheating. Anything else is creativity.
  • Deathranger999Deathranger999 Posts: 1,692Member ✭✭✭
    There's so much of a grey area around here. How do you define cheating on a game that has no rules? I actually play the game and progress myself, I don't use any sort of autoclicker, never have and never will. That's what I call cheating, anything that requires no effort by you to successfully execute. I use Cookie Master, only because it just helps me play the game more efficiently and progress well, which I find fun.
    "Monotheism is progress of a sort because they're getting nearer the true figure all the time." -C. Hitchens
    "After all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." -A. Dumbledore
    "If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." -S. Black
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,188
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
    I had a dream my life would be
    So different from this hell I'm living
    So different now, from what it seemed
    Now life has killed the dream I dreamed
  • erdbeereerdbeere Posts: 3,384Member, Helpful ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zyzzyzus said:

    Dinkydau said:

    Using the console or a program that extracts or modifies information from cookie clicker in any way is cheating. Anything else is creativity.

    But if you just extract info from the game that you could use yourself what is the difference? For example you could just input your CBAT into the formula with a calculator to find out how many cookies you'll have after reset. Or you could use the console as your calculator.

    That means that anything that only shows stats/info you can already see is not cheating to me I suppose.

    So my wrinkler mod is cheating since you can't see how many cookies you'll get without popping them otherwise. :P
    You could justify your wrinkler mod by arguing, that you could just open anther tab and pop one wrinkler there to calculate your total amount. But one could argue that that is cheating too.^^
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