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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

CC Simulation, results.

13

Comments

  • OmeganianOmeganian Posts: 117Member ✭✭
    Hmmm... with Mousekeys, I get about 15-25% of my total from clicking.
  • Icehawk78Icehawk78 Posts: 68Member
    Shylight said:

    During One Mind you'll get roughly 19.75 gold cookies and 9.72 red cookies. 34.65 red cookies for Elder Pact. Note that each cookie in a chain is accounted here, thus the difference. You will, on average, get this many effects during one hour:
    ╔═══════╤════════╤══════════════╤═══════╤══════════════╤══════╤══════╗ ║ Lucky │ Frenzy │ Click Frenzy │ Chain │ Elder Frenzy │ Clot │ Ruin ║ ╔════════════╬═══════╪════════╪══════════════╪═══════╪══════════════╪══════╪══════╣ ║ One Mind ║ 8.295 │ 7.203 │ 0.7675 │ 0.503 │ 0.4676 │ 2.21 │ 2.23 ║ ╟────────────╫───────┼────────┼──────────────┼───────┼──────────────┼──────┼──────╢ ║ Elder Pact ║ 4.855 │ 0.000 │ 0.4592 │ 1.122 │ 1.1536 │ 4.82 │ 4.84 ║ ╚════════════╩═══════╧════════╧══════════════╧═══════╧══════════════╧══════╧══════╝

    …collisions between Frenzy and items that are affected by it:

    • Lucky: 1.466;
    • Ruin: 0.208;
    • Clicking Frenzy: 0.084;
    • Deer: 7.644.
    …elDeer and Clot/Deer:
    ╔═══════╤═══════╗ ║ Elder │ Clot ║ ╔════════════╬═══════╪═══════╣ ║ One Mind ║ 0.051 │ 2.328 ║ ╟────────────╫───────┼───────╢ ║ Elder Pact ║ 0.500 │ 6.384 ║ ╚════════════╩═══════╧═══════╝
    Question regarding this - did you actually calculate these values, or are these averages over time? I ask largely because I have actually calculated the probabilities for any given cookie at each wrath level, so if the more accurate numbers would be useful, they can be provided.
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod
    These are averages. They are not very accurate, especially in certain areas.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • CookiefanclubCookiefanclub Posts: 601Member, Friendly ✭✭✭
    I'm kind of dependent on Frenzied Luckies because I don't play actively enough to go for Eldeers, so would it be better for me to buy Communal Brainsweep and stick to that, or should I go Full Wrath and use the Pledge if I really want golden cookies?
  • Icehawk78Icehawk78 Posts: 68Member
    Shylight said:

    These are averages. They are not very accurate, especially in certain areas.

    Elder Pledge/Wrath:0
    clot: 0 frenzy: 0.475438636303817 blood: 0 chain: 0.004445863757111 ruin: 0 frenzyRuin: 0 clotRuin: 0 lucky: 0.070071731013916 frenzyLucky: 0.405366905290347 clotLucky: 0 click: 0.022561043069409 frenzyClick: 0.022115820565423 clotClick: 0

    One Mind/Wrath:1
    clot: 0.10386789477947 frenzy: 0.330397784579005 blood: 0.021118483342717 chain: 0.025152456647178 ruin: 0.059020277260868 frenzyRuin: 0.031491314174174 clotRuin: 0.013356303344429 lucky: 0.113288563286977 frenzyLucky: 0.219293086015375 clotLucky: 0.046715208884435 click: 0.020309670016808 frenzyClick: 0.012720131151967 clotClick: 0.001307530606642

    Elder Pact/Wrath:3
    clot: 0.279830557040944 frenzy: 0 blood: 0.065166067095688 chain: 0.068600124409242 ruin: 0.171880882712373 frenzyRuin: 0 clotRuin: 0.107949674328571 lucky: 0.171634249195106 frenzyLucky: 0 clotLucky: 0.107949674328571 click: 0.019177860550822 frenzyClick: 0 clotClick: 0.007810910338684

    These are the exact probabilities of any given cookie spawning at the given level.

    For timing: On average, 1 GC will appear every 131.5 seconds (less than 1% of all GCs will appear sooner than 105.86 seconds, and less than 1% of all GCs will appear later than 149 seconds).

    Let me know if there's any other numbers that would be more useful to know.
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod

    I'm kind of dependent on Frenzied Luckies because I don't play actively enough to go for Eldeers, so would it be better for me to buy Communal Brainsweep and stick to that, or should I go Full Wrath and use the Pledge if I really want golden cookies?

    Your best bet is to stick with One Mind. Communal Brainsweep is horrid, pledging is even worse.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • QokoQoko Posts: 287Member ✭✭

    I'm kind of dependent on Frenzied Luckies because I don't play actively enough to go for Eldeers, so would it be better for me to buy Communal Brainsweep and stick to that, or should I go Full Wrath and use the Pledge if I really want golden cookies?

    Communal Brainsweep is an inbetween in choosing the 'positive' and 'negative' playstyle and therefore never recommended: One Mind supports Frenzied wrinklers for leisury players, whereas Elder Pact supports Eldeer for hunters. Brainsweep does both and neither, to say. The pledge, although great for golden cookie effects, forfeits wrinklers which gives the majority of gain in any apocalypse stage. You can active a pledge for a few minutes if you insist to play without wrinklers if you're intending to pop them anyway, but that's about it.
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod
    Qoko said:

    I'm kind of dependent on Frenzied Luckies because I don't play actively enough to go for Eldeers, so would it be better for me to buy Communal Brainsweep and stick to that, or should I go Full Wrath and use the Pledge if I really want golden cookies?

    Communal Brainsweep is an inbetween in choosing the 'positive' and 'negative' playstyle and therefore never recommended: One Mind supports Frenzied wrinklers for leisury players, whereas Elder Pact supports Eldeer for hunters. Brainsweep does both and neither, to say. The pledge, although great for golden cookie effects, forfeits wrinklers which gives the majority of gain in any apocalypse stage. You can active a pledge for a few minutes if you insist to play without wrinklers if you're intending to pop them anyway, but that's about it.
    Last reset I actually found pledge to be really useful in getting Managers — I use it to pop wrinklers anyway, and getting last ~50 quints was far easier in Pledge than it would be without. This time, however, I've learned my lesson and used OM to get them.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • QokoQoko Posts: 287Member ✭✭
    Shylight said:

    Qoko said:

    I'm kind of dependent on Frenzied Luckies because I don't play actively enough to go for Eldeers, so would it be better for me to buy Communal Brainsweep and stick to that, or should I go Full Wrath and use the Pledge if I really want golden cookies?

    Communal Brainsweep is an inbetween in choosing the 'positive' and 'negative' playstyle and therefore never recommended: One Mind supports Frenzied wrinklers for leisury players, whereas Elder Pact supports Eldeer for hunters. Brainsweep does both and neither, to say. The pledge, although great for golden cookie effects, forfeits wrinklers which gives the majority of gain in any apocalypse stage. You can active a pledge for a few minutes if you insist to play without wrinklers if you're intending to pop them anyway, but that's about it.
    Last reset I actually found pledge to be really useful in getting Managers — I use it to pop wrinklers anyway, and getting last ~50 quints was far easier in Pledge than it would be without. This time, however, I've learned my lesson and used OM to get them.
    Well yeah that is basically what I meant with the 'few minutes of Pledge'. Pledge bursts more but sacrifices quite a bit over the long run, so if we are to recommend a stage to newbies we should stick to One Mind or Elder Pact; not that you're the person I should be telling this to though, haha.
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod
    edited April 2014
    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    image
    image
    please note that the order on second chart is messed up a bit

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • I_HATE_MISDEERI_HATE_MISDEER Posts: 1,392Member ✭✭
    The reddit?
  • SekhmetSekhmet Posts: 172Member ✭✭
    You have more losses due to ruin in OM than in EP? Is this because of frenzied ruin? That's suprising.

    By the way, how is the "total" calculated in the first graph? Is is some sort of average? The highest and lowest are in the active player/idle case?
    Thanks a lot for these sims, they are really helpful.
  • SuperTSuperT Posts: 320Member ✭✭
    edited April 2014
    This confirms my ideas that a lot of income from pledge comes from click frenzy, (more than with the other two anyway). Therefore pledge is a very good strategy for click enthousiasts (i.e. people bots with autoclickers :) )
  • Icehawk78Icehawk78 Posts: 68Member
    Shylight said:

    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.

    Any chance you could run these for a span of ~2-3 days per sim, rather than 1hr runs? I don't know that the results will necessarily be different, but I'd be curious to see if they were at all.
  • sfnhltbsfnhltb Posts: 69Member ✭✭
    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.

    Any chance you could run these for a span of ~2-3 days per sim, rather than 1hr runs? I don't know that the results will necessarily be different, but I'd be curious to see if they were at all.
    The average shouldn't change much, and I can't see the relative positions changing much (FW might improve/drop a couple of percent depending on the whether the start of each run is assumed to be synced or desynced). I guess the main change will be the range between min/max will close in a lot as luck will even out over the longer runs.
  • SuperTSuperT Posts: 320Member ✭✭


    The reddit?

    No, everyone here on DNF.
    "Full wrath is better"
    "You should go eldeer hunting"
    "One mind is outdated"
    I'd probably say:
    "Full Wrath is for the pros and the Lucky."
    "Pledge is good for autoclickers."
    "One Mind is good for the casual clicker (whatever that is)."

    And I always thought that DNF stand for Duke Nukem Forever lol :P
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod
    Sekhmet said:

    You have more losses due to ruin in OM than in EP? Is this because of frenzied ruin? That's suprising.

    By the way, how is the "total" calculated in the first graph? Is is some sort of average? The highest and lowest are in the active player/idle case?
    Thanks a lot for these sims, they are really helpful.

    You have to note — these are percentages. Also, in OM I set it up to hold clicking on GC until clot is gone.
    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.

    Any chance you could run these for a span of ~2-3 days per sim, rather than 1hr runs? I don't know that the results will necessarily be different, but I'd be curious to see if they were at all.
    Not impossible, but would take a long time. I can run 6~8 hours overnight, I guess, but the main parameter here is actually the amount of runs. Back when I was experimenting, 100 runs gave me a significant jitter over reruns, while 1000 brought it to less than 1%.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • Icehawk78Icehawk78 Posts: 68Member
    Shylight said:

    Sekhmet said:

    You have more losses due to ruin in OM than in EP? Is this because of frenzied ruin? That's suprising.

    By the way, how is the "total" calculated in the first graph? Is is some sort of average? The highest and lowest are in the active player/idle case?
    Thanks a lot for these sims, they are really helpful.

    You have to note — these are percentages. Also, in OM I set it up to hold clicking on GC until clot is gone.
    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.

    Any chance you could run these for a span of ~2-3 days per sim, rather than 1hr runs? I don't know that the results will necessarily be different, but I'd be curious to see if they were at all.
    Not impossible, but would take a long time. I can run 6~8 hours overnight, I guess, but the main parameter here is actually the amount of runs. Back when I was experimenting, 100 runs gave me a significant jitter over reruns, while 1000 brought it to less than 1%.
    Could you run, say, 100 runs at 10 hours? That should at a minimum give you a good idea of whether or not you're likely do get drastically different results from running a single hour sim.
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod
    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    Sekhmet said:

    You have more losses due to ruin in OM than in EP? Is this because of frenzied ruin? That's suprising.

    By the way, how is the "total" calculated in the first graph? Is is some sort of average? The highest and lowest are in the active player/idle case?
    Thanks a lot for these sims, they are really helpful.

    You have to note — these are percentages. Also, in OM I set it up to hold clicking on GC until clot is gone.
    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.

    Any chance you could run these for a span of ~2-3 days per sim, rather than 1hr runs? I don't know that the results will necessarily be different, but I'd be curious to see if they were at all.
    Not impossible, but would take a long time. I can run 6~8 hours overnight, I guess, but the main parameter here is actually the amount of runs. Back when I was experimenting, 100 runs gave me a significant jitter over reruns, while 1000 brought it to less than 1%.
    Could you run, say, 100 runs at 10 hours? That should at a minimum give you a good idea of whether or not you're likely do get drastically different results from running a single hour sim.
    Well, 10 hours should be possible even with 1000. I'll probably get to it in a bit.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
  • Icehawk78Icehawk78 Posts: 68Member
    Shylight said:

    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    Sekhmet said:

    You have more losses due to ruin in OM than in EP? Is this because of frenzied ruin? That's suprising.

    By the way, how is the "total" calculated in the first graph? Is is some sort of average? The highest and lowest are in the active player/idle case?
    Thanks a lot for these sims, they are really helpful.

    You have to note — these are percentages. Also, in OM I set it up to hold clicking on GC until clot is gone.
    Icehawk78 said:

    Shylight said:

    So, I found regrettable bug in my simulation. The results after rerunning it with bug fixed were rather unsurprising for me:

    One Mind pulls ahead on average by ~200 Qi for parameters used in my previous simulation.

    Any chance you could run these for a span of ~2-3 days per sim, rather than 1hr runs? I don't know that the results will necessarily be different, but I'd be curious to see if they were at all.
    Not impossible, but would take a long time. I can run 6~8 hours overnight, I guess, but the main parameter here is actually the amount of runs. Back when I was experimenting, 100 runs gave me a significant jitter over reruns, while 1000 brought it to less than 1%.
    Could you run, say, 100 runs at 10 hours? That should at a minimum give you a good idea of whether or not you're likely do get drastically different results from running a single hour sim.
    Well, 10 hours should be possible even with 1000. I'll probably get to it in a bit.
    One other potentially interesting tidbit - it seems the rate at which autoclicking outperforms reindeer could well be dependent upon your HC level - user \\z on the IRC has a save with ~2.5 mil HC, and the exact same calculations that, for my game (with 6.2 mil HC) said that >8 clicks/s meant you should pledge, is saying that their save should play at One Mind with 20 clicks/s during Frenzies and 15/s all the rest of the time.

    So, that's another thing to verify in your simulations - how many HC you're running it as, since that apparently might alter the optimal playstyle.
  • Icehawk78Icehawk78 Posts: 68Member

    Clicking scales with HC.
    Reindeer scale with HC.
    They both increase at the same rate per HC.
    How would HC affect this comparison?

    I'm not entirely certain, thus why I mentioned it - I'm just pointing out that my own calculations returned a surprising result to me, so I thought I'd share it to see if it's either corroborated by others, or if it's anomalous.
  • I_HATE_MISDEERI_HATE_MISDEER Posts: 1,392Member ✭✭


    The reddit?

    No, everyone here on DNF.
    "Full wrath is better"
    "You should go eldeer hunting"
    "One mind is outdated"
    never seen such things, just seen stuff like

    fw is better if ur lucky and staff
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 2,745Member, Friendly, Conversationalist ✭✭✭
    edited May 2014
    Double post
    Boots, Brogues, Cleats, Clogs, Flip-flops, Flippers, Galoshes, Getas, Loafers, Oxfords, Mukluks, Moccasins, Pumps, Sandals, Skates, Shoes, Slippers, Sneakers, Socks, Slingbacks, Stilettos, Rollerblades, Tennies, Waders, Wellingtons
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 2,745Member, Friendly, Conversationalist ✭✭✭

    Clicking scales with HC.
    Reindeer scale with HC.
    They both increase at the same rate per HC.
    How would HC affect this comparison?

    Cookie chains
    Boots, Brogues, Cleats, Clogs, Flip-flops, Flippers, Galoshes, Getas, Loafers, Oxfords, Mukluks, Moccasins, Pumps, Sandals, Skates, Shoes, Slippers, Sneakers, Socks, Slingbacks, Stilettos, Rollerblades, Tennies, Waders, Wellingtons
  • PerfectionPerfection Posts: 2,745Member, Friendly, Conversationalist ✭✭✭
    edited May 2014
    and whether you're in the 70% versus 30% depends on HC, right?
    Boots, Brogues, Cleats, Clogs, Flip-flops, Flippers, Galoshes, Getas, Loafers, Oxfords, Mukluks, Moccasins, Pumps, Sandals, Skates, Shoes, Slippers, Sneakers, Socks, Slingbacks, Stilettos, Rollerblades, Tennies, Waders, Wellingtons
  • ShylightShylight Posts: 6,436Moderator, Friendly, Helpful, Flagger Mod

    and whether you're in the 70% versus 30% depends on HC, right?

    Partially. It depends on your CpS, which, in turn, depends on your HC.
    SparklebuttimagePurplesmart
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