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What if you were....

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Comments

  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lefian said:

    @Jarr Currently, religion is hindering certain advances in science that include animal/human testing. Most protests against people of race, gender, or sexual orientation rooted from religion.
    As of right now, religion is causing a bit more harm that it is helping us.

    Also, what do you mean we wouldn't be capable of free thought or sentience?
    I'm currently reading a book on Orthodoxy that's helping me understand the Christian POV.

    I pretty much said that religion is more harm then good, though. I was mainly replying to Brainstorm statement that humanity would've been doomed if we hadn't had religion. I'm well aware most of those were caused by religion, and I fully believe that anyone who forces their religious beliefs on someone else is a jerk.

    However, if we were literally incapable of believing in god (possibly even thinking of god), that means that we would have a limited amount of free thought. As Zyzzyzus (idc) said that he'd remove "all religion" from the world, that heavily implies that all humans would be literally incapable of believing anything except atheism. However, it is also a very ambiguous statement. I'd assume that the statement would mean that humans are literally incapable of thinking about a god and/or other religious beliefs, which would limit our thinking and as thus make us incapable of true free thought (there's a reason why we're the only animal who actually has religion in the first place). But, depending on your definition of religion, you could virtually erase free thinking altogether. It's theoretically possible to interpret religion as anything someone has a large amount of faith in. For example, one could argue that if someone believes in say, communism to a practically religious degree, that would make them incapable of believing in communism, at least not to the level they believed in it before.
    Another one bites the dust
  • BrainstormBrainstorm Posts: 11,227Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to mention that without religion, people wouldn't believe in the afterlife, thus, lots of people will think we disappear completely from existence after death... that could actually be more harmful than it sounds.
    "Calm your caps, bro." -Brainstorm

    the following link is the best thing that could happen to you: http://forum.dashnet.org/discussions/tagged/brainstormgame

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  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not to mention that without religion, people wouldn't believe in the afterlife, thus, lots of people will think we disappear completely from existence after death... that could actually be more harmful than it sounds.

    Not really. People's beliefs in the afterlife have always varied quite a bit, and as a result many of them might as well be nonexistent. For example, the ancient Greeks believed that after death, most people get trapped in the underworld for all eternity, practically stuck in a pointless existence.

    Furthermore, the afterlife, while a major part of many religions, has never been really something that important for people's daily lives. In fact, if people were to not believe in an afterlife, many would likely value their daily lives even more. As a result, many more people would try to focus on enriching themselves, rather than trying to appease the gods as to not get a worse afterlife. Fears of hell, for example, would make a gay person afraid to be gay, while if they believe there isn't an afterlife, there would be no reason to be afraid to be gay.
    Another one bites the dust
  • BrainstormBrainstorm Posts: 11,227Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jarr2003 said:

    Not to mention that without religion, people wouldn't believe in the afterlife, thus, lots of people will think we disappear completely from existence after death... that could actually be more harmful than it sounds.

    Not really. People's beliefs in the afterlife have always varied quite a bit, and as a result many of them might as well be nonexistent. For example, the ancient Greeks believed that after death, most people get trapped in the underworld for all eternity, practically stuck in a pointless existence.

    Furthermore, the afterlife, while a major part of many religions, has never been really something that important for people's daily lives. In fact, if people were to not believe in an afterlife, many would likely value their daily lives even more. As a result, many more people would try to focus on enriching themselves, rather than trying to appease the gods as to not get a worse afterlife. Fears of hell, for example, would make a gay person afraid to be gay, while if they believe there isn't an afterlife, there would be no reason to be afraid to be gay.
    I still don't think gayness is a good thing at all, but I'm going to stay neutral to this and only comment on saying that "fear of being gay is a good thing actually, and we are better off with it than without"
    "Calm your caps, bro." -Brainstorm

    the following link is the best thing that could happen to you: http://forum.dashnet.org/discussions/tagged/brainstormgame

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  • ViniVini Posts: 3,601Member, Friendly, Conversationalist ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017

    fear of being gay is a good thing actually

    image
    Post edited by Vini on

  • idcidc Posts: 139Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017



    I still don't think gayness is a good thing at all, but I'm going to stay neutral to this and only comment on saying that "fear of being gay is a good thing actually, and we are better off with it than without"

    I'm not even going to get involved in that. All I will say is,
    neutral
    ˈnjuːtr(ə)l
    adjective
    1.
    not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartial.
    BEETLE there is! While the ROOMS here not!
  • BrainstormBrainstorm Posts: 11,227Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    idc said:



    I still don't think gayness is a good thing at all, but I'm going to stay neutral to this and only comment on saying that "fear of being gay is a good thing actually, and we are better off with it than without"

    I'm not even going to get involved in that. All I will say is,
    neutral
    ˈnjuːtr(ə)l
    adjective
    1.
    not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartial.
    What I meant was stay neutral to the afterlife thing
    "Calm your caps, bro." -Brainstorm

    the following link is the best thing that could happen to you: http://forum.dashnet.org/discussions/tagged/brainstormgame

    Currently managing a large-based forum game.. DashNet RPG! Play it now: http://forum.dashnet.org/discussion/15882/dashnet-rpg-dashnets-greatest-forum-game-of-all-time
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  • idcidc Posts: 139Member ✭✭✭

    idc said:



    I still don't think gayness is a good thing at all, but I'm going to stay neutral to this and only comment on saying that "fear of being gay is a good thing actually, and we are better off with it than without"

    I'm not even going to get involved in that. All I will say is,
    neutral
    ˈnjuːtr(ə)l
    adjective
    1.
    not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartial.
    What I meant was stay neutral to the afterlife thing
    It still applies.
    BEETLE there is! While the ROOMS here not!
  • LefianLefian Posts: 1,912Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017

    Jarr2003 said:

    Not to mention that without religion, people wouldn't believe in the afterlife, thus, lots of people will think we disappear completely from existence after death... that could actually be more harmful than it sounds.

    Not really. People's beliefs in the afterlife have always varied quite a bit, and as a result many of them might as well be nonexistent. For example, the ancient Greeks believed that after death, most people get trapped in the underworld for all eternity, practically stuck in a pointless existence.

    Furthermore, the afterlife, while a major part of many religions, has never been really something that important for people's daily lives. In fact, if people were to not believe in an afterlife, many would likely value their daily lives even more. As a result, many more people would try to focus on enriching themselves, rather than trying to appease the gods as to not get a worse afterlife. Fears of hell, for example, would make a gay person afraid to be gay, while if they believe there isn't an afterlife, there would be no reason to be afraid to be gay.
    I still don't think gayness is a good thing at all, but I'm going to stay neutral to this and only comment on saying that "fear of being gay is a good thing actually, and we are better off with it than without"
    *Insert trigger here*
    mmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm
  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jarr2003 said:

    Not to mention that without religion, people wouldn't believe in the afterlife, thus, lots of people will think we disappear completely from existence after death... that could actually be more harmful than it sounds.

    Not really. People's beliefs in the afterlife have always varied quite a bit, and as a result many of them might as well be nonexistent. For example, the ancient Greeks believed that after death, most people get trapped in the underworld for all eternity, practically stuck in a pointless existence.

    Furthermore, the afterlife, while a major part of many religions, has never been really something that important for people's daily lives. In fact, if people were to not believe in an afterlife, many would likely value their daily lives even more. As a result, many more people would try to focus on enriching themselves, rather than trying to appease the gods as to not get a worse afterlife. Fears of hell, for example, would make a gay person afraid to be gay, while if they believe there isn't an afterlife, there would be no reason to be afraid to be gay.
    I still don't think gayness is a good thing at all, but I'm going to stay neutral to this and only comment on saying that "fear of being gay is a good thing actually, and we are better off with it than without"
    At least provide some reasoning before you bluntly say that homophobia is good.
    Another one bites the dust
  • McJaggerMcJagger Posts: 1,268Member ✭✭✭
    this thread has really turned into an argument, of whither if religion helps or not........... can we get back to the actual topic... because... you know......... this could be flagged as off topic (i wont, but someone else may do it.... there are "those" people on the forums)
    I am currently alive, as i was dead.....
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    to those who never met me.... hi?
  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, I'll add everybody involved to a pm in case anyone wants to continue. Anyone who wants to be added as well can ask and I'll add them.
    Another one bites the dust
  • BrainstormBrainstorm Posts: 11,227Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, I want to kill Einstein because nukes
    Just kidding because it's already too late and he's dead
    "Calm your caps, bro." -Brainstorm

    the following link is the best thing that could happen to you: http://forum.dashnet.org/discussions/tagged/brainstormgame

    Currently managing a large-based forum game.. DashNet RPG! Play it now: http://forum.dashnet.org/discussion/15882/dashnet-rpg-dashnets-greatest-forum-game-of-all-time
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  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, I want to kill Einstein because nukes
    Just kidding because it's already too late and he's dead

    >Killing Einstein to slow scientific progress
    Another one bites the dust
  • LefianLefian Posts: 1,912Member ✭✭✭
    Einstein would have been nukk'd had he not escaped from Germany anyways, rite?
    mmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm
  • idcidc Posts: 139Member ✭✭✭
    Not that I want another discussion to spark off from this, but I believe nukes have kept the world safe. It only started to become an issue recently due to NK and Iran. But they prevent war and still do.

    So if you removed them, there would be another world war. Or if you removed them from history, there would have been one or more. It takes MAD to stop humans killing eachother. And even that isn't completely successful.
    BEETLE there is! While the ROOMS here not!
  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    idc said:

    Not that I want another discussion to spark off from this, but I believe nukes have kept the world safe. It only started to become an issue recently due to NK and Iran. But they prevent war and still do.

    So if you removed them, there would be another world war. Or if you removed them from history, there would have been one or more. It takes MAD to stop humans killing eachother. And even that isn't completely successful.

    (Again, I see nothing wrong with a discussion. If it becomes too big, we can just move it to another pm)

    Yeah, without nuclear weapons, WW2 probably would've lasted a couple more months minimum, with certainly more casualties. While nukes led to the cold war, they at the same time very well could've been the main reason why the cold war never evolved into WW3. Nukes were the biggest reason why the US never fought the USSR directly, and vice versa, and without something to create mass fear like nukes, the various world peace movements likely wouldn't have become so common, making wars much more common.
    Another one bites the dust
  • ManiklasManiklas Posts: 2,886Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    removing religion mwouldn't change war even the slightest. Even if religion wouldn't exist, people would still find other groups to fight for, and against.
    Post edited by Maniklas on
  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maniklas said:

    removing religion mwouldn't change war even the slightest. Even if religion wouldn't exist, people would still fin other groups to fight for, and against.

    Maybe not modern wars (but even that's not really true), a large number of wars came from religious groups demanding various different things. The crusades were done because the crusaders needed to take back their "holy lands," the Aztecs started so many wars because they believed that the sun was fueled with human blood, etc. While we would still have wars, we would have significantly less due to the lack of religion. Even in modern day, the middle east is filled with religious conflicts, as well as various terrorist groups like ISIS that are primarily fueled by religion.
    Another one bites the dust
  • ManiklasManiklas Posts: 2,886Member ✭✭✭
    Jarr2003 said:

    Maniklas said:

    removing religion mwouldn't change war even the slightest. Even if religion wouldn't exist, people would still fin other groups to fight for, and against.

    Maybe not modern wars (but even that's not really true), a large number of wars came from religious groups demanding various different things. The crusades were done because the crusaders needed to take back their "holy lands," the Aztecs started so many wars because they believed that the sun was fueled with human blood, etc. While we would still have wars, we would have significantly less due to the lack of religion. Even in modern day, the middle east is filled with religious conflicts, as well as various terrorist groups like ISIS that are primarily fueled by religion.
    No, what I meant was that it doesn't matter at all.

    I didn't solely mean wars between religions, even without anything to worship people will still find other minority's to harass eg gay people (naah I don't wanna get too political so I'll only give one example)

    Like WW2 wouldn't have stopped because jews didn't exist, Hitler would have chosen to point out another minority if that had been the case.

    What I mean is that minoritys would exist even though religion wouldn't.
  • Jarr2003Jarr2003 Posts: 3,795Member ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maniklas said:

    Jarr2003 said:

    Maniklas said:

    removing religion mwouldn't change war even the slightest. Even if religion wouldn't exist, people would still fin other groups to fight for, and against.

    Maybe not modern wars (but even that's not really true), a large number of wars came from religious groups demanding various different things. The crusades were done because the crusaders needed to take back their "holy lands," the Aztecs started so many wars because they believed that the sun was fueled with human blood, etc. While we would still have wars, we would have significantly less due to the lack of religion. Even in modern day, the middle east is filled with religious conflicts, as well as various terrorist groups like ISIS that are primarily fueled by religion.
    No, what I meant was that it doesn't matter at all.

    I didn't solely mean wars between religions, even without anything to worship people will still find other minority's to harass eg gay people (naah I don't wanna get too political so I'll only give one example)

    Like WW2 wouldn't have stopped because jews didn't exist, Hitler would have chosen to point out another minority if that had been the case.

    What I mean is that minoritys would exist even though religion wouldn't.
    I understand what you're saying, but saying war "wouldn't change in the slightest" without religion is still wrong, I think, for the reasons I've said before.

    Unless you're talking about the concept of war itself. In that case, there would still be some changes. For example, back in medieval times, many kings were kings because of religious reasons (and even in some countries today, like Saudi Arabia). As a result, when people began to rebel against their kings to form new countries (such as America), some were against it because of religious reasons and not just political reasons. In America's instance, for example, the independence movement would have been much easier without religion, as less people would believe that the king needed to be the king for religious reasons only. In those instances the primary supporters of the king would likely have been supporters due to political reasons, and as thus much more people would want to change the government. That would have changed the war quite a bit.

    Tl;dr While war would be similar without religion, it still would change quite a bit in some ways.
    Another one bites the dust
  • McJaggerMcJagger Posts: 1,268Member ✭✭✭
    ....... this is not the purpose of this forum, but idfc
    I am currently alive, as i was dead.....
    to those who knew me IM BACK! BABY!
    to those who never met me.... hi?
  • ManiklasManiklas Posts: 2,886Member ✭✭✭
  • KarylupaKarylupa Posts: 4Member
    I would like to help all the lonely old people and the homeless !!My heart breaks when I see how hard it is for old people
  • McJaggerMcJagger Posts: 1,268Member ✭✭✭
    (Le Bumparuuu)

    i would become a box, ive always wanted to be a box.
    I am currently alive, as i was dead.....
    to those who knew me IM BACK! BABY!
    to those who never met me.... hi?
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