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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

How viable is endgame Elder Pact in v2?

QokoQoko Posts: 287Member ✭✭
edited April 2016 in General Discussion
Back in the day, in v1, the endgame strategies were pretty interesting: I closely followed the discussions between One Mind and Elder Pact (Frenzied wrinklers and Eldeers respectively). With the addition of prestige upgrades and the dragon auras the comparison changes. I've read MasterSparky's thread regarding One Mind vs Pledge with regards to clicking speed, but not how this relates to Elder Pact.

From a personal point of view, I honestly always disliked the slow playstyle of One Mind and it seems so odd to Pledge, something that was basically not done back in v1. Also, in v2 it seems easier to sync cookies and deers due to increased spawn rates on GCs, so slightly removing the RNG component during Elder Pact. However, with the added chance of FDF I can understand One Mind and/or Pledge overtaking it.

So, tl;dr, how viable is Elder Pact statistically compared to One Mind or Elder Pledge in v2?

Comments

  • AlderiAlderi Posts: 1,205Member, Friendly, Conversationalist ✭✭✭✭
    Intuitively, I'd guess that, as you said, Elder Pact is worse than One Mind and Pledge now because of the lower FDF chance. I can't provide any tangible numbers, though. You'd have to ask @MasterSparky.
    Cette simple signature sifflant sans cesse semble s'arrêter si soudainement!
  • VampirateVampirate Posts: 6Member
    Imo the further up the angel ladder you go with Ascensions the better Elder Pact becomes. What I do is actively play with Elder Pledge, then when I go to sleep have the grandmapocolypse active (thus the wrinklers), go back into the game and pledge, thus popping the wrinklers for free cookies.
  • QokoQoko Posts: 287Member ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Vampirate said:

    Imo the further up the angel ladder you go with Ascensions the better Elder Pact becomes. What I do is actively play with Elder Pledge, then when I go to sleep have the grandmapocolypse active (thus the wrinklers), go back into the game and pledge, thus popping the wrinklers for free cookies.

    Fair point, as Elder Pact idling is simply more effective than One Mind (though with Arcane Sugar in the permanent upgrades the difference is almost neglicible). As an added bonus, eggs and Halloween cookies can be farmed more quickly in Elder Pact. Do mind that the offline bonus does actually not apply to Wrinklers (at least if the wiki is right).

    However, what I meant specifically was playing Elder Pact actively compared to Elder Pledge or One Mind (whichever preferred). I have to admit that two Ascensions later I started to enjoy Elder Pledge active play, but the question still stands.
    Alderi said:

    Intuitively, I'd guess that, as you said, Elder Pact is worse than One Mind and Pledge now because of the lower FDF chance. I can't provide any tangible numbers, though. You'd have to ask @MasterSparky.

    This is what I was thinking myself, but I don't really see it written anywhere, so I was wondering.
  • VampirateVampirate Posts: 6Member
    Elder Pact playing active is bad imo, you have a 28.594% chance every cookie to get either Ruin (you lose 5% of cookies), or Clot (CPS halves without wrinklers, especially bad because you have the golden cookie), That's a 57.188% chance of landing something bad, just by being in Elder Pact actively. You could choose to not click the Wrath cookies but then you are really idling honestly.

    If you have 1 mind, the Golden cookies with more than counter the effects of the cookies or cps lost done by wrath cookies.
  • VampirateVampirate Posts: 6Member
    In other words if you go to pact, basically go with pledge so you get the cps upgrades but without the wrath cookie drawbacks. Paying the pledge fee will be very small for a while. It does go up, but you won't feel the effects of the fee for a long while.
  • rebmcrrebmcr Posts: 278Member ✭✭
    Now that cookies stack multiplatively, and Dragonflight exists, getting the Research upgrades and then Pledging is my strategy.
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  • ZytmaZytma Posts: 209Member ✭✭
    Vampirate said:

    Elder Pact playing active is bad imo, you have a 28.594% chance every cookie to get either Ruin (you lose 5% of cookies), or Clot (CPS halves without wrinklers, especially bad because you have the golden cookie), That's a 57.188% chance of landing something bad, just by being in Elder Pact actively. You could choose to not click the Wrath cookies but then you are really idling honestly.

    If you have 1 mind, the Golden cookies with more than counter the effects of the cookies or cps lost done by wrath cookies.

    Wrath cookies is not a net loss. Even with full Granmapocalypse Luckies is a bigger gain than Ruins are a loss and Elder Frenzies (much) more than makes up for the Clots and then there's CF, DF and Chains.
  • essiwessiw Posts: 646Member, Flagger ✭✭✭
    Why are ruins considered a loss though, it is only a loss for the cookies that you can spend, it doesn't decrease from the cookies earned, so your prestige is not affected.
  • rebmcrrebmcr Posts: 278Member ✭✭
    essiw said:

    Why are ruins considered a loss though, it is only a loss for the cookies that you can spend, it doesn't decrease from the cookies earned, so your prestige is not affected.

    The whole point of lategame is the income from GCs, so it's still a loss relative to what you would have otherwise earned.
    image
  • essiwessiw Posts: 646Member, Flagger ✭✭✭
    Ah, I didn't think like that.
  • QokoQoko Posts: 287Member ✭✭
    Vampirate said:

    Elder Pact playing active is bad imo, you have a 28.594% chance every cookie to get either Ruin (you lose 5% of cookies), or Clot (CPS halves without wrinklers, especially bad because you have the golden cookie), That's a 57.188% chance of landing something bad, just by being in Elder Pact actively. You could choose to not click the Wrath cookies but then you are really idling honestly.

    If you have 1 mind, the Golden cookies with more than counter the effects of the cookies or cps lost done by wrath cookies.

    This is a common misconception as Zytma stated: Elder Pact itself is a significant net gain through Elder Wrinklers and Eldeers alone. Yes, the majority of the Wrath Cookies is negative, though only one a net loss, but that's something you sacrifice whilst constantly lining up cookies and deers for Eldeers and having 12 Wrinklers running.

    However, back in v1 it was competitive with One Mind semi-active playing, as having Frenzies up with 10 Wrinklers made up for most of the RNG of Elder Frenzies; Elder Pact was slightly better if fully active.

    Though I have no statistic prove, it seems that in v2 the added chance of Dragonflight alone makes both One Mind and Elder Pledge superior though. It simply gives another chance at a Frenzy + Click Bonus, as well as adding another positive effect to Wrath Cookies in One Mind.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 788Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Think very carefully before invoking Elder Pledge. The advantages seem obvious: all those cookies instantly unlocked, plus 30 minutes in which all the popup cookies are golden ones with no wrath. The upfront cost is ridiculously low, especially at first.

    It did not take me long to realise, however, that the true cost is potentially very large. It's like the cost of popping all your wrinklers, except that it's even worse than that, because there are 30 minutes to wait before even the first one can spawn again, so that's an entire additional 30 minutes during which you are missing out on the added production of all ten (or twelve) wrinklers. You had better be sure that you can make the most of those 30 minutes. You need to estimate roughly how many cookies you expect to unlock. If the number is too small, you won't be able to do buy anything useful with it, and it will also severely limit the payoff from a Lucky Cookie. A Lucky Cookie can save you 1.75 hours if you get one while a Frenzy is current, but to get that full benefit your cookies-at-bank needs to be at least 6000 times the enhanced CpS, i.e. 42,000 times the normal CpS.
    Post edited by bob_32_116 on
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