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Could you use DETERMINATION to cause an Omega Point event?

SwingWingSwingWing Posts: 34Member ✭✭

Could you use DETERMINATION to cause an Omega Point event? 4 votes

¤RunninginReverse¤ManiklasYosukeHanamura 3 votes
BurnCookie 1 vote


  • ¤RunninginReverse¤¤RunninginReverse¤ Posts: 15,855Member, Friendly ✭✭✭✭✭
    Generally, Determination (in the Undertale sense, which, I'm gonna guess that's what it is) has been proven to do 1 thing, and 1 thing only: keep things alive, no matter the cost. It works fine with humans, but with Monsters, it causes... odd effects, unless given in exact dosages. This includes the creation of Flowey (due to an improper body and the dust of Asriel that remained on it) and the melting together of the Amalgamates.

    That latter event, however, sounds like what, according to Wikipedia, the Omega Point is ("a spiritual belief and a scientific speculation that everything in the universe is fated to spiral towards a final point of divine unification"). Maybe not divine, but it is sorta... a point of unification. However, take in mind that this effect is only present when injected into:

    1. Monsters, and
    2. They have to already be in a state of "fallen down," i.e. dying of natural causes.

    This effect is entirely seen in monsters - Humankind is completely immune to the effects, and those monsters have to be dying of natural causes as it occurs. What happens when an alive Monster is injected with Determination is unknown.

    The results of a Monster becoming determined while dying from an attack is shown in Undyne:

    - If an improper amount of Determination is present, the Monster will melt slowly before turning to Dust entirely; some effects of Determination in "fallen down" monsters are present, however Amalgamation does not occur and the monster does indeed die within a few turns. (Evidence: Kill Undyne on a Neutral Route.)
    - If just the right amount of Determination is present, the Monster's body will reform entirely and grow more powerful than before. (Evidence: Undyne the Undying.)

    Now, neither of those sound remotely like we're looking for. And we already know humans can handle any amounts of Determination without melting (Frisk is literally the most determined being in the Underground), only causing the ability to SAVE if they happen to have enough, or memory otherwise.

    Flowey is a unique case, however he is also not what we're looking for; he's a Monster combined with a plant, and yes, that's unification, however there's not exactly potential to do this with every single living Monster, or with any humans.

    So, no, Determination alone will not allow a point of all life in the world joining together in "divine unification." BUT, Determination could create the circumstances required for one to take place, if taking in mind that human SOULS persist after death. What you'd have to do for that, however, is:

    - Somehow manage to get every Monster - including the Royal Family - to combine together into a single Amalgamate. (Let's call this creature the "Omegamate.")
    - Then, have them kill every single human on the surface and absorb their SOULS.
    - Somehow also manage to combine it with all plant-life without it dying.

    Depending on whether or not you count the plant-life, you can create an Omegamate within the Undertale universe, and thus, the Omega point is possible, however Determination is not the only factor required.

    Other factors include the "falling down" of all Monsters, a non-Monster present to inject Determination into them before they die entirely, and the deaths of all of humankind to absorb their Souls into the Omegamate. However, this is an extremely painful situation for all involved, and would likely mean all of them are in pain for all eternity.
    Warning! Warning! One left in the way
  • ViniVini Posts: 3,596Member, Friendly, Conversationalist ✭✭✭✭✭
    ... Did you guys plan this?

  • ¤RunninginReverse¤¤RunninginReverse¤ Posts: 15,855Member, Friendly ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vini said:

    ... Did you guys plan this?

    No, I just have way too much free time and know how basically everything in Undertale works, at least as much as is possible with the game's canon information alone.
    Warning! Warning! One left in the way
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