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Garden minigame

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  • chemochemo Posts: 7Member
    edited May 2018
    I see Shriekbulb can be gotten from 5x elderwort, does it matter if there's anything else in there as well, or does it need to be 100% elderwort. I've got everything else but this one is killing me.

    Edit: Same goes for with Duketaters.
  • blank3tm0nst3rblank3tm0nst3r Posts: 109Member ✭✭
    As long as there are 5 Elderwort, it doesn't matter what else is around.
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    The only exclusions when it comes to mutations are for plants that can generate themselves, which generally don't if there's too many of them already around.

    Duketaters is the best method because it generates from ANY duketater, not just mature ones, and it's the highest mutation chance by far. Plant them in rows with woodchips before you're gonna be busy/away for over an hour. Elderworts might be immortal but the mutation chance is abysmal.

    They don't live terribly long, so you might even consider using pebbles if you're gonna be doing it while gone for 10 hours. (work/sleep) You'll probably have the seed when you're back.
    Post edited by Tumalu on
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 531Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    chemo said:

    I see Shriekbulb can be gotten from 5x elderwort, does it matter if there's anything else in there as well, or does it need to be 100% elderwort. I've got everything else but this one is killing me.

    Edit: Same goes for with Duketaters.

    You don't want anything else around since it is reducing the chances of a shriekbulb. In a 3x3 square, you have 5 filled with DT or EW (but don't bother with EW since DT are 5x more likely to spawn it), leaving four empty plots for the spawn. If you then stick something else in those plots you reduce the likelihood of spawning by however many plots you use up eg 1 plot = -25%

  • chemochemo Posts: 7Member
    Got it randomly while I was putting something else on fertiliser haha, bloody RNG.
  • MaddieMaddie Posts: 178Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018

    In a 3x3 square, you have 5 filled with DT or EW (but don't bother with EW since DT are 5x more likely to spawn it), leaving four empty plots for the spawn. If you then stick something else in those plots you reduce the likelihood of spawning by however many plots you use up eg 1 plot = -25%

    Wait.
    I thought it was that there had to be five EW or DT in the 8 squares surrounding where you want the Shriekbulb to spawn? That means that in a 3x3 plot, you can only have at most two spawnable plots at a time.* Is SB different that it just requires the correct number of parent plants, and not the correct placement?

    *
    XoX ................ XXX
    XXX ......or...... oXo
    XoX ................ XXX

  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    No, he just worded it in a weird way. There is no unusual placement rules for any of the plants.
  • MaddieMaddie Posts: 178Member ✭✭
    Then you can't have four spots in a single 3x3 where SBs can spawn, and you have four arrays (the same one, rotated, actually) where you could have one possible SB and have three plots that won't affect it.

    3 5 3
    5 8 5
    3 5 3

  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 531Member ✭✭✭
    No but plots overlap. The other 3 spaces you have free can also be in contact with 5 DT if they are arranged that way. If you put something else in there, that eliminates the possibility it can spawn. Sorry if that was unclear.

  • BillaboBillabo Posts: 1,320Moderator, Friendly, Conversationalist Mod
    Oh, you're not talking about just a 3x3 plot; you mean a 3x3 section of a larger plot.
    Fire Emblem: Fates castle address
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    56318-03154
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    With GC/hand of fate combo Queenbeet harvests, I wonder how far up in cookies you can get before progress starts slowing down... at 500 dec CPS, an ideal combo gets me roughly 40 quattuordecillion cookies, and an enormous amount of heavenly chips.

    After several elder harvests, I can already ascend for 5x my production, just waiting to harvest my juicy queenbeets tomorrow night first. But I can only wonder how many times I can loop this before it takes more than a few days to double plus my heavenly chips. It's, uh, it's gonna be a lot, I'm pretty sure. Last run I ascended at 1 quattuordecillion, now I'm making ~40 in one harvest, and next run I'll easily hit 1 quindecillion baked for the last of the progress-based achievements.

    edit:With the best building frenzy types (which you can save and reload for), an elder combo queenbeet harvest grants roughly 8 billion times your CPS. Welp! To be fair, this is with ~700 of my best buildings, so it's a little lower before then, but uh, still. Considering more cookies means more buildings so stronger frenzies, this strat might take a VERY long time to tick down in power...
    Post edited by Tumalu on
  • Asbestos_Free_CookieAsbestos_Free_Cookie Posts: 50Member ✭✭
    Tumalu said:

    For some reason, Hand of Fate gives a different result whether your sound selector is set to On or Off. This ruined so many attempts to get major queenbeet cookies, but now that I know how it works, I can load up Hand of Fate with a building frenzy twice as fast!

    Huh? Care to elaborate on that?
  • CartoonCookieCartoonCookie Posts: 12Member ✭✭
    Really hating that I've been watching a Juicy Queenbeet grow for over 2 days now, and the thing is taking forever to mature. I just waited for two hours for it to mature 1 click(using Fertilizer). Then after another 30 minutes it went down 13 clicks. I've still got 122 clicks to go, and I've even got 8 Elderwort growing around the thing(trying to get Elderwort Biscuts while waiting for this thing to mature). Only have a Level 3 Garden, and it's sitting right in the middle of my garden, so I need it to go away now so I can unlock the last few plants I need to get the Seedless to nay achievement, so getting the special garden upgrades will be easier. This is just like when I was trying to harvest my first Drowsyfern to unlock the seed. The thing took forever because the maturation time kept sporadically stopping and going at random intervals. This bug really needs to be fixed. In case anyone can tell me what is going on, my setup is this-

    *Juicy Queenbeet isn't maturing right, but Elderwort is and was growing fine.
    *Have Christmas Season going on for extra cookie Reindeer, so wondering if Winter season somehow affects garden growth?

    Some help would be nice figuring this out.
    Cartoons and Cookies? What an awesome combination!
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    OK, so the thing with Juicy Queenbeets and Drowsyferns is that their total lifespan is SO many ticks, but the progress bar and time estimate only VISIBLY progress when it's hit at least 1% further in it's life... as far as I can tell. So, until it accrues ~12.5+ average ticks of growth, it doesn't visibly advance.

    This seems to be true, because if you watch, you'll notice that under 24 hours, each visible advancement on their timer will cut off slightly over half an hour of growth. So you cannot see their growth until it's advanced by about 12 ticks.

    Beyond that, growth RNG means sometimes they will grow very, very little. According to some people, they can get nothing at all, but I don't know the code enough to say if that's truly accurate, or just seemingly so from low growth rolls. I assume it's the latter.

    So, it's not bugged, and it is growing, but if your luck is bad it can take awhile. If you open multiple tabs you can check every 15+ minutes for which one grows faster, save that one, and reopen new tabs from there to "tunnel" for the best result. Doesn't work well when you're farming multiple for lumps, works great on a single plant.

    Also, holy crap at managing to apparently unlock almost every seed with only a lv3 garden. That's painful. It's so, so much easier at higher garden levels. Kudos to you, though.

    Huh? Care to elaborate on that?

    Now that I'm aware the Sound Selector changes Hand of Fate's effect seed, I can test the result for both of them. So, it'll take half the average time to find a cast with Building Frenzy. It ruined attempts before, because I was testing HoF casts with the sound off, and then trying to use it in real play when the sound was on and the result wasn't right... so frustrating!

    Now I'm getting massssssive cookies by chaining it with Frenzy+Elder Frenzy base, and harvesting my queenbeets with shift+ctrl click on the seed before elder wears off. It's truly insane amounts of cookies.

  • CartoonCookieCartoonCookie Posts: 12Member ✭✭
    Tumalu said:

    OK, so the thing with Juicy Queenbeets and Drowsyferns...

    Also, holy crap at managing to apparently unlock almost every seed with only a lv3 garden. That's painful. It's so, so much easier at higher garden levels. Kudos to you, though.

    Thanks for the info, and yes getting those seeds was painful. I have 29/34 seeds right now, and as I said I'm waiting for the Juicy Queenbeet to mature. Thankfully the thing is at 60 ticks left now. I could have taken all my Sugar Lumps I've grown so far to increase my garden. But, I wanted make sure my buildings were leveled evenly as possible. All I have left are the Duketater, Shriekbulb, Tidygrass, and Everdaisy.
    Cartoons and Cookies? What an awesome combination!
  • blank3tm0nst3rblank3tm0nst3r Posts: 109Member ✭✭
    Tumalu said:

    To be fair, this is with ~700 of my best buildings, so it's a little lower before then, but uh, still. Considering more cookies means more buildings so stronger frenzies, this strat might take a VERY long time to tick down in power...

    How do you have 500 dec CpS and which buildings do you have ~700 of? It feels like I'm missing out on something...
  • LathundLathund Posts: 37Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Juicy Queenbeets have an 8% chance to progress their age per tick. That means it takes 12.5 ticks on average to make one step of progress. So you could see nothing happening for a long time and then suddenly, it takes 12 fewer ticks before the JQB is mature. Note that 12 ticks in Fertilizer equals 36 minutes.

    The maturation time is not an exact amount. It's an estimate, based on how much the plant still has to grow. If you're lucky, it goes faster than the estimated time. If you're unlucky, it takes longer. And if you're a savescummer, you make your own luck.
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Yeah, that hypothesis seems really flawed. If that were the case, you could scum it to grow every single tick. However, that does not seem to work, based on my testing.

    I have 2 JQBs with one space inbetween them (for easy checking), reloaded until they both grew on the same tick, then reloaded the next tick about 50 times- with two JQBs that got me 100 results of them never growing. Meanwhile they'd been growing easily on the first time; it took less than 10 attempts to make them both grow at once.

    That's a pretty clear sign there's growth going on that we can't see. The system just doesn't seem to update their life estimates until it passes the next 1% total lifespan mark, explaining why it updates in 12 tick chunks. Of course, their growth is still pretty random, so you can scum it a lot faster, preferrably via multiple open tabs due to the unseen growth factor.

    I've grown so far to increase my garden. But, I wanted make sure my buildings were leveled evenly as possible.

    While I can understand wanting even-level buildings, I'll still make at least a token mention that it's massively antiproductive; all but the top 3 buildings and wizards/farms have practically NO effect from leveling them up, until they reach lv10 and give an achievement. You're basically throwing sugar lumps away for nothing :S Meanwhile a lv9 farm can grant insane amounts of cookies and/or lots of sugar lumps to help level things.
  • LathundLathund Posts: 37Member ✭✭
    Well, all I know is that I've managed to make them go a lot faster with savescumming. Other than that, my source is dpareja, who seems to have the code figured out.
  • MaddieMaddie Posts: 178Member ✭✭
    Don't forget that leveling up mines is good, too. They have a sizeable invisible result on your CPS due to the number of other buildings they have Synergies with.
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Synergies aren't boosted by sugar lump leveling, though.

    ...I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure they're not? They only increase the cps output of that specific building, so your mines won't boost any other buildings any better with lump investment.
  • LathundLathund Posts: 37Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    So, what tricks have people found to temporarily decrease CpS? This is my list so far:

    - Clot/Rust/Cursed Finger
    - Unslotting a good deity like Mokalsium
    - Slotting Dotjeiess (-30%)
    - Slotting Cyclius at the right moment (up to -15%)
    - Naming yourself Orteil (-1%) Ortiel (-2%)
    - Elder Covenant (-5%)
    - Selling buildings
    - Backfiring Conjure Baked Goods
    - Planting Brown Mold/Nursetulip (particularly useful to plant these first if you want them anyway)

    I've done most of these myself, although not all.
    Post edited by Lathund on
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Okay, went to test sugar lumps in a tab I can just close afterwards and then keep going in my normal save. Freaked out for a second because leveling stuff LOWERED cps, then realized it's the Sugar Baking upgrade, lol.

    There is no synergy benefit from sugar lump levels. It's just that Mines actually have more cps than portals after their boosts. It's still practically nothing, tho', to where you'd be vastly better off getting from 99 to 100 lumps for Sugar Baking than getting a mine to even lv1.

    Still, if you have farms/wizards and the top 4 buildings to lv10 already and 100 lumps, mines is the next target. :V
    Post edited by Tumalu on
  • dparejadpareja Posts: 460Member ✭✭✭
    Try naming yourself Ortiel. It's -2% to CpS.
  • LathundLathund Posts: 37Member ✭✭
    Heh, funny. Thanks.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 531Member ✭✭✭
    Lathund said:

    So, what tricks have people found to temporarily decrease CpS? This is my list so far:

    - Clot/Rust/Cursed Finger
    - Unslotting a good deity like Mokalsium
    - Slotting Dotjeiess (-30%)
    - Slotting Cyclius at the right moment (up to -15%)
    - Naming yourself Orteil (-1%) Ortiel (-2%)
    - Elder Covenant (-5%)
    - Selling buildings
    - Backfiring Conjure Baked Goods
    - Planting Brown Mold/Nursetulip (particularly useful to plant these first if you want them anyway)

    I've done most of these myself, although not all.

    Can't get a clot etc with Elder Covenant active, except for a FTHOF backfire I suppose... Muridal also drops cps so whack that in the ruby slot for a combined 32% with Dotjeiess.

  • LathundLathund Posts: 37Member ✭✭
    Agreed, but you can start a Covenant after you've clicked a Clot. Good point about Muridal.
  • MaddieMaddie Posts: 178Member ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    By the way, for slotting/unslotting Cyclius: This is the approximate pattern of his effect.
    Notes:
    1) The times are for my local time zone, but to figure your own, the starting point is midnight GMT. Adjust accordingly.
    2) I didn't meticulously track the progression; it's not quite a parabola, it's more of a bell curve, but this is close enough for most purposes.
    3) The red x's are where you'd want to swap slots to keep him at as high of a level as possible. Otherwise, swapping slots at the zero line works.
    4) You want to pull him completely at the equivalent of 1:30 pm GMT in your time zone. He drops below the zero point then on all three slots.

  • MaddieMaddie Posts: 178Member ✭✭
    Another way is to slot Vomitrax. Your building-based CPS goes down by up to 7% and all cookies are wrath cookies with a higher chance of a rust/clot/cursed finger.
  • TumaluTumalu Posts: 84Member ✭✭
    Wrath cookies are skruuia, not vomitrax, but skruuia is a good bet if you're trying to get rusts and curses for super cheap plants.
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