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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

Garden minigame

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Comments

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 781 ✭✭✭


    Take the achievement for 1 quindecillion CBAT. Assume you've played for so long that your CpS is 1 undecillion (I'm only at 42 decillion currently, and THAT was basically considered endgame). Unlocking that achievement would take 1 trillion seconds at your base CpS. That's over 30,000 years.

    Patience is a virtue. There is a reason why it's called an "idle game". :)

    Now here's an idea for a feature in a future upgrade. I was thinking about the switch that "freezes" your garden, preserving it as it is by stopping all growth and all garden effects for the duration. instead of that, how about being able to cryogenically freeze yourself? You could select a number of years, say one year, 10 years, 100 years, 1000 etc. The game would "jump forward" as if that time period had elapsed with production at the same constant rate, as if you had gone to sleep and woken up many years in the future, Rip van Winkle style.

    There would have to be restrictions of course. You would not be able to invoke it during any kind of frenzy. There would have to be a cost, perhaps in the form of sacrificing a certain number of sugar lumps to pay for your preservation while frozen. You would have to be restricted in how many times you could do it. Obviously the drawback would be that there is no way you could increase the CpS during the "elapsed" years. The garden would of course be overgrown with weeds. Maybe there would be a risk of having all or most of your buildings destroyed in a nuclear war. Finally, if you realised that you had irrevocably stuffed up, you could go to the Time Travel Bureau and travel back to the time you started - again for an appropriate cost.

    Thoughts? Interesting idea? Or too messy?
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    edited May 4
    I think balancing such a feature gets too messy. You even thought it would be appropriate to include an even sillier Undo feature for those who regretted using it, which is sign that it might not be a good idea.

    As for the cheapcaps farming in one post back, are cheapcaps strong enough for that without additional boosts? o.o ..I admit, I've been doing this, but I've been slotting/unslotting Dotjeiess, the dragon aura (I don't need high cps so I've just got low chancemakers for cheap swaps), and casting/miscasting building pixies! This puts a 2 hour cooldown, although with notably larger returns. When I've got nursetulips grown I can get 40% plus of my cookie total as a return.

    ...but if you can literally just grow cheapcaps in clay and do it (esp. with nursetulips) that's a lot more abusable. edit:Wow, apparently it is. Not to mention if you -do- have time to grow nursetulips your profit margins get a lot bigger.
    The sell price is based on the cost of the next building, not the cost of the one you're selling. Each building costs 1.15 times as much as the previous one, so you're getting back 0.85×1.15 = 97.75% of the cost.
    Ah, this is the true culprit. If building sellback was based on the price of how many buildings you actually had, the problem would be vastly smaller. If that wasn't enough of of a fix, Earth Shatter nerfing to 80% sellback would make your profit margins small enough even on the maximum efficient setup that it would be completely unworthwhile.

    However purely tweaking building sellback to a proper 85% instead of being based on the next building would mostly fix it. You could get ~10% bank from a superefficient setup but it'd have hours of cooldown and by the time it's better then megafrenzy queenbeets, you should probably reset. So, it'd be an option, but a fair one.

    Post edited by Tumalu on
  • LathundLathund Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Lathund said:

    I reckon Nursetulips make each other more efficient as well? Two neighbouring Nursetulips in dirt would both give at least 24% bonus instead of 20. Maybe more, depending on whether or not the bonus they give each other is recursive.

    Turns out this is not the case. Two Nursetulips do not boost each other's effect.
  • Asbestos_Free_CookieAsbestos_Free_Cookie Member Posts: 42 ✭✭
    Does clay amplify Elderwort's local accelerated aging?
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    edited May 5
    Nursetulips do not boost eachother directly, however, the effect multiplies for each nursetulip affecting an individual space. So, a tile adjacent to 2 nursetulips in clay does not get 150% effect, it gets 156%. The difference becomes enormous with more like 6 nursetulips, granting 380% effect instead of 250%! (e.g. if you plant alternating rows of them).

    Soil type affects both nursetulips and aging effects from Elderwort and Ichorpuffs. But clay will make growth massively slow anyway, so, it doesn't really synergize with elderwort at all. If you're trying to get ichor syrup from ichorpuffs you might consider using pebbles/wood chips for the -75% effect once they're blooming, though.
  • Asbestos_Free_CookieAsbestos_Free_Cookie Member Posts: 42 ✭✭
    Tumalu said:

    Nursetulips do not boost eachother directly, however, the effect multiplies for each nursetulip affecting an individual space. So, a tile adjacent to 2 nursetulips in clay does not get 150% effect, it gets 156%. The difference becomes enormous with more like 6 nursetulips, granting 380% effect instead of 250%! (e.g. if you plant alternating rows of them).

    Soil type affects both nursetulips and aging effects from Elderwort and Ichorpuffs. But clay will make growth massively slow anyway, so, it doesn't really synergize with elderwort at all. If you're trying to get ichor syrup from ichorpuffs you might consider using pebbles/wood chips for the -75% effect once they're blooming, though.

    I often have my game closed. While ticks don't start while the game is closed, the existing one continues to count down. So, for example, if I open the game only once per day to get my Sugar Lump faster, there is functionally no difference between the 3 minute tick time of fertilizer, and the 15 minute tick time of clay.
    On second thought if I was planning on doing it that way no matter what, clay would still be the best choice because I get more grandma boost for those 10 seconds of clicking the sugar lump and then saving the game.
  • dr_flashdr_flash Member Posts: 124 ✭✭
    OH NOES :'( I finally had my first Drowsyfern spawned, but it takes like 15 hours to mature. So I check my game the next morning and it's just GONE. Only meddleweeds in my garden. I hate this.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭
    Yeah that happened to me too. I have taken to opening multiple tabs and running the game across them to increase the probability of getting the mutation, then freezing one of them when it's there as a backup and letting the others roam free.

  • blank3tm0nst3rblank3tm0nst3r Member Posts: 108 ✭✭
    dr_flash said:

    OH NOES :'( I finally had my first Drowsyfern spawned, but it takes like 15 hours to mature. So I check my game the next morning and it's just GONE. Only meddleweeds in my garden. I hate this.

    Yeah, having to unlock each seed is, imo, the worst part of this "minigame". They should either all be unlocked at the start, unlock more with higher farm levels/# of farms, or just buy seeds with cookies. Needing to unlock them all AND having to spend a significant amount of cookies to plant them is too much that I feel it goes against the CC design philosophy (especially the Sacrifice garden tool. Like, really?).

    That's why I'm gonna cheat to cookie hell and back once I complete the seed catalog 1 time. I'm not even cheating in cookies, just bypassing arbitrary luck based busywork so I can spend way too many cookies to mess with some plants. I play Cookie Clicker as an idle game, not a micromanaging farming sim.
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    dr_flash said:

    OH NOES :'( I finally had my first Drowsyfern spawned, but it takes like 15 hours to mature. So I check my game the next morning and it's just GONE. Only meddleweeds in my garden. I hate this.

    A few plants are immune to being overtaken by weeds, but if you want to protect your plants, surround them with Elderwort (which will also age them a little faster, useful for plants like Drowsyfern), or plant a Tidygrass next to them (but it'll die well before Drowsyfern matures), or an Everdaisy (which is immortal).
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    Thankfully juicy queenbeets are immune to weeds, as are every other super-slow-maturing plants like elderwort/tidygrass/everdaisy/duketater.

    But yeah, I had the same thing happen to my first drowsyfern too!
  • MaddieMaddie Member Posts: 172 ✭✭

    I play Cookie Clicker as an idle game, not a micromanaging farming sim.

    Bingo.


  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    Maddie said:

    I play Cookie Clicker as an idle game, not a micromanaging farming sim.

    Bingo.


    Which is why I go for Juicy queenbeets. Sure I end up frantically savescumming to get them growing, but after that they take a long, long time and I can just let the game idle.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 781 ✭✭✭
    I can't wait to sese what these Juicy Queenbeets look like.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭

    I can't wait to sese what these Juicy Queenbeets look like.

    Well, they look identical to Queenbeets for the first 8 hours or so.

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 781 ✭✭✭

    I can't wait to sese what these Juicy Queenbeets look like.

    Well, they look identical to Queenbeets for the first 8 hours or so.
    I don't have those yet either. Slowly working my way through the list of seeds.
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    Just gonna say, the only thing that keeps Cheapcaps/Earth Shatterer from being COMPLETELY broken is that you can't also get near-infinity sugar lumps with them.
  • dr_flashdr_flash Member Posts: 124 ✭✭
    Hmm, so if you freeze the garden, nothing grows, ages, matures, mutates, decays, soil can't be changed.
    But you can still harvest stuff :o /surprised
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    Actually really important for using Queenbeets. A full farm of queenbeets seriously hurts CPS, and it's nice to use Clay to maximize the golden cookie bonus, which makes it a -massive- penalty. So you always want to freeze before harvesting queenbeets.

    If it wasn't for that, bakeberries would actually be better than queenbeets, apart from requiring a little more effort. Sure, you could use wood chips, but bakeberries would -boost- cps by ~45% instead of penalizing by ~16... bakeberries would be giving 43m normal cps and queenbeets would be giving 50m with double the growth time.

    ...wait, huh? Bakeberries still give slightly over 2/3rds the amount of a queenbeet in half the growth time. That's... actually better. Still, there's the problem of setting up massive golden cookie bonus chains twice as often, so queenbeets are still the most user-friendly.
  • blank3tm0nst3rblank3tm0nst3r Member Posts: 108 ✭✭
    Tumalu said:

    Actually really important for using Queenbeets. A full farm of queenbeets seriously hurts CPS, and it's nice to use Clay to maximize the golden cookie bonus, which makes it a -massive- penalty. So you always want to freeze before harvesting queenbeets.

    If it wasn't for that, bakeberries would actually be better than queenbeets, apart from requiring a little more effort. Sure, you could use wood chips, but bakeberries would -boost- cps by ~45% instead of penalizing by ~16... bakeberries would be giving 43m normal cps and queenbeets would be giving 50m with double the growth time.

    ...wait, huh? Bakeberries still give slightly over 2/3rds the amount of a queenbeet in half the growth time. That's... actually better. Still, there's the problem of setting up massive golden cookie bonus chains twice as often, so queenbeets are still the most user-friendly.

    Also worth noting, under optimal conditions, BB can only increase your bank by a factor of ~2.90x, with QB granting ~8.15x your bank.
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    edited May 9
    Mmm, that's true!

    But only if one is still limited by their bank 0:3 Still, it does take a little while to overcome your bank, so that's relevant.

    ...especially if one graduates from frenzy+b.frenzy -> hand of fate, to frenzy+ELDER frenzy -> hand of fate... but I haven't been doing this yet. I'm still slightly slow on the uptake and forget to freeze my beets first sometimes, your timing has to be tight on elder frenzy. Once I get into the pattern of things better.

    I also figured out why my Hand of Fate wasn't working right before. It's the GC Sound Selector. There is a different static result for Chime On and No Sound. I'd been testing with no sound and then farming with the chime on. Also, this means there's two Hand of Fate results to test for each seed! Even better!

    Wait, actually, I'm confused. QB's bank increase factor should be identical to BB's, just doubled, because it has double the bank limit. In the end, you cannot get more than 216% of your bank out of QBs, so where is 8.15x coming from?

    edit:Oh. Herpaderpaderp. I get it. It's the difference between harvesting manually and with the ctrl+shift+seedclick button. I've been using instant harvest with queenbeets and squandering potential. Harvest All on bakeberry, on the other hand, maximizes the cps bonus so it ain't all bad. In either case, you really have to use the shortcut in order to do it during an elder frenzy, but that's really good to know for non-elder harvests!

    ...jesus christ, that makes queenbeets even stronger than I already thought they were.
    Post edited by Tumalu on
  • blank3tm0nst3rblank3tm0nst3r Member Posts: 108 ✭✭
    "Optimal conditions" implies that your bank is the constraint that limits the return on your QBs, not your CpS. Since every QB is harvest sequentially and not simultaneously, each QB effectively raises your bank by a potential 6% before calculating the return of the next QB. The 6% return is multiplicative not additive at this point.

    Let's assume your CpS is so high (due to stacking CpS buffs) that your first QB maxes out at 6% of your bank as a reward. This leaves your with 1.06x your original bank. If you harvest another QB, again with your CpS being super high, you will gain 6% of your NEW bank, leaving you with 1.1236x your original bank instead of 1.12x. Repeat this for all 36 plots of your garden and you are left with 1.06^36, or ~8.15x your original bank.

    I made an equation somewhere earlier in this thread to figure out what your CpS would need to be in order to max the returns on your bank if you're interested in seeing that.
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    edited May 9
    Yeah, I literally just realized it an edited into my post the moment before you made yours. What timing XD

    The problem is that I -have- been simultaneously harvesting the queenbeets using the shortcut. My bank's been tripling, so, as far as I can tell the shift+ctrl+click shortcut harvest truly -is- simultaneous.

    But outside of elder harvests (where you have only seconds to HoF, golden switch, possibly freeze farm, maybe change GC sound switch...) it's vastly superior to harvest manually until you hit your limit, so thank you!
  • LathundLathund Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Wait, what's with the sound switch?
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭
    Just got the seedless to nay achievement. I feel so empty.
    Lathund said:

    Wait, what's with the sound switch?

    Golden cookie sound selector

  • BigbyBossBigbyBoss Member Posts: 50 ✭✭
    Would Mind Over Matter affect the rate at which you get upgrades from harvesting mature plants?
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    Yes, Mind Over Matter affects the likelihood that a plant will drop its upgrade. Note that you only have to get them once.
  • BigbyBossBigbyBoss Member Posts: 50 ✭✭
    dpareja said:

    Yes, Mind Over Matter affects the likelihood that a plant will drop its upgrade. Note that you only have to get them once.

    Thanks for responding. :)
  • LathundLathund Member Posts: 37 ✭✭
    edited May 10

    Just got the seedless to nay achievement. I feel so empty.

    Lathund said:

    Wait, what's with the sound switch?

    Golden cookie sound selector
    Yeah, I know. But apparently, there's a reason to do something with that when you're having an Elder Frenzy harvest?
  • TumaluTumalu Member Posts: 84 ✭✭
    For some reason, Hand of Fate gives a different result whether your sound selector is set to On or Off. This ruined so many attempts to get major queenbeet cookies, but now that I know how it works, I can load up Hand of Fate with a building frenzy twice as fast!
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