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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

Sugar Lumps

TruthPP34TruthPP34 Member Posts: 9
There must be some math I'm doing incorrectly here, or some mechanic I don't understand.

The stats page says I've harvested 94 sugar lumps, but when I count up by hand the ones I've invested into building types I only count 30. To my knowledge I've never used one to refill the magic meter or refill the pantheon slots. What's the deal?

Comments

  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    What's the number next to the growing sugar lump?

    Also, are you counting your buildings right? Remember that going to level N from level N-1 requires paying N sugar lumps, so that getting to level 1 requires 1 lump, level 2 requires 3 (1+2) lumps, level 3 requires 6 lumps, etc.
  • Lava_EntityLava_Entity Member Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭
    Mine reads 130. I don’t even know if the update has been out that long even.

    Also, has only 8 lumps unused, I have used refill on the magic meter about five times.
    cease your tomfoolery

  • TruthPP34TruthPP34 Member Posts: 9
    dpareja said:

    What's the number next to the growing sugar lump?

    Also, are you counting your buildings right? Remember that going to level N from level N-1 requires paying N sugar lumps, so that getting to level 1 requires 1 lump, level 2 requires 3 (1+2) lumps, level 3 requires 6 lumps, etc.

    OK that's an obvious math oversight by me. Level 2 requiring 3 lumps, etc, was where i went wrong. Thank you!
  • BillaboBillabo Moderator, Friendly, Conversationalist Posts: 1,288 Mod
    TruthPP34 said:


    OK that's an obvious math oversight by me. Level 2 requiring 3 lumps, etc, was where i went wrong. Thank you!

    3 lumps TOTAL for level 2. I just want to clarify that, because when I read that, my reaction was "No, each level costs lumps equal to the new level."
    Fire Emblem: Fates castle address
    08619-69569
    56318-03154
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭

    Mine reads 130. I don’t even know if the update has been out that long even.

    Also, has only 8 lumps unused, I have used refill on the magic meter about five times.

    Sugar lumps implemented (in main game, at least) on July 15, so 88 days, but I'm not sure how long it's been since the 2.003x beta began (or where they were implemented in that).

    Have you gotten lucky with Sweet! and special lumps? And have you bought the related heavenly upgrades and set Rigidel at all?
  • TruthPP34TruthPP34 Member Posts: 9
    Billabo said:

    TruthPP34 said:


    OK that's an obvious math oversight by me. Level 2 requiring 3 lumps, etc, was where i went wrong. Thank you!

    3 lumps TOTAL for level 2. I just want to clarify that, because when I read that, my reaction was "No, each level costs lumps equal to the new level."
    Yup I understood the original explanation, just didn't regurgitate it clearly. Upgrading to level five, for example, requires five additional sugar lumps to what you've already put in. Thanks for the help.

    I've gotten seemingly unlucky with getting meaty lumps or bifurcated lumps, I think it's only happened 3 or 4 times total (though I have both achievements) and I've gotten just one or two lumps from a lucky cookie. Anything helps though. After putting one lump in each building I got chancemakers to 10 and now have six in prisms as I'm working down the list. Might do wizard towers next though.
  • MaddieMaddie Member Posts: 172 ✭✭
    Just to be perfectly obvious, it takes 55 lumps to bring a building up to level ten.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 781 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    From the point of view of getting the ten levels achievement, it makes no difference which levels are upgraded first. Therefore, it seems to me that while all the levels are less than ten, the best strategy is to at each point level up the building that gives the best increase in CpS for the sugar lumps expended (easy to calculate) rather than getting one level of each, then two of each, etc. or "working your way down" or any other strategy. It's pretty easy to prove that levelling up the building with the highest ratio of (CpS increase)/((lumps required) is the best strategy for maximising cookies.

    Once one building gets to level 10, then it's up to the player to decide whether to go for the ten levels achievement or to just continue the strategy of levelling the best. Personally I'm not sure I feel like waiting 18 months or two years or whatever to get a CpS boost that I can probably get much more quickly by up-levelling my best buildings. At my stage of the game, each additional achievement equates to a CpS boost of around 2.6%. So really the only reason for getting the achievement is... ummmm... to get the achievement (which is of course a perfectly valid reason, it is after all a game).
    Post edited by bob_32_116 on
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭
    I'm at 117 on beta and 101 on live game. I've missed a few through botched harvests when I didn't realise you could refresh and try again.

  • jackthecookiejackthecookie Member Posts: 87 ✭✭
    edited November 2017
    just clicked cookie which gave 1 (!) sugar lump and that doesn't help me much (although I got 4th lump to upgrade shipments to lvl4 but that's very small boost).

    122 lumps harvested and some lump achievements gotten but still I think that lumps don't help gameplay much.
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    "Sweet" is a possible golden cookie outcome. It's really rare, but IIRC I've gotten two sugar lumps out of them.

    As for gameplay, I'd say the Grimoire and the Pantheon are a big boost to gameplay, and hopefully the other minigames will be similar boosts.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 781 ✭✭✭
    Sugar lumps are a significant boost to production, but only in the long term sense. By "long term" I mean times in the order of years. That's because each increase in the level of a building gives a 1% increase in its production, meaning that in the long term the production is proportional to the square root of the number of sugar lumps harvested, which in turn is proportional to time. This is on top of the effect of CpS boost from prestige.

    In the VERY long term, though, as I posted elsewhere, the behaviour is dominated by Birthday Cookie, whose effect is directly proportional to time, rather than the square root of time.
  • DatreborDatrebor Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    I clicked on a Golden Cookie and found a sugar lump. Cool.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭
    56 lumps to get to level ten and a 10% boost. How many lumps to get to level 100 and a doubling of cps?

  • MaddieMaddie Member Posts: 172 ✭✭
    edited November 2017
    5050
  • JezDavisJezDavis Member Posts: 207 ✭✭
    154 main game and 139 beta; 20 billion prestige. I'm at the point now where it's almost worth shutting the game down as there's nothing to play for other than sugar lumps and they come whether or not the game's open. Need a new hidden game to boost the rate of sugar cube production.
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    JezDavis said:

    154 main game and 139 beta; 20 billion prestige. I'm at the point now where it's almost worth shutting the game down as there's nothing to play for other than sugar lumps and they come whether or not the game's open. Need a new hidden game to boost the rate of sugar cube production.

    Check in every day to see whether the lump growing is a special one. (If you have all the upgrades, you'll know when there's about 9 hours to go before it matures.) If it is special, be prepared to play (briefly) at some point during the time between maturation and dropping so that you can savescum maximum lumps.

    A lump can be special even if it spawned when the game was closed, but if multiple lumps are harvested while the game is closed, all of them except the first are guaranteed to be normal. So be sure to check in every day or so, and save whenever you do.

    EDIT: The other thing I'd do is that if, while you're building up to the point where you want to be when you go into idle, keep checking your Force the Hand of Fate results. If you get Sweet! (which is rare but possible, and you can get them from both Golden Cookies and Wrath Cookies on that spell), then set Mokalsium/Jeremy/Selebrak and Radiant Appetite/Breath of Milk (instead of Mokalsium/Holobore/Jeremy), which does result in a 5.7% CpS penalty but lets you hit Golden Cookies without penalty. So hit the Golden Switch, keep the game open so that your magic recharges, and cycle through the Grimoire results with Haggler's Charm so that you can get sugar lumps from Force the Hand of Fate.

    You should also be in Elder Pact so that you have a maximal chance of spawning meaty lumps, which as long as you harvest special lumps manually to get 2 lumps (or 7 if you're lucky and get a golden lump) will boost your sugar lump production rate as well.
    Post edited by dpareja on
  • Lulu_LalahLulu_Lalah Member Posts: 2
    Another lump-related question (the answer is possibly obvious, but i better ask):
    When I ascend, do my buildings keep their levels? Or do I start over and the sugar lumps used so far are kindof wasted?
    Thanks!
  • BillaboBillabo Moderator, Friendly, Conversationalist Posts: 1,288 Mod
    You keep your buildings' sugar lump levels when you ascend.
    Fire Emblem: Fates castle address
    08619-69569
    56318-03154
  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 455 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    To expand on the method I expounded in my previous post:

    What I would do if I really wanted to scum, is that I'd export my save right before I ascended, then, as soon as I ascended, I'd export again.

    I'd buy some Wizard Towers until I have enough magic to cast Force the Hand of Fate (I believe 24 will do even at level 1, but when you have very few towers, the level has a large influence on your magic, so this will go down drastically with your level), and then cast Force the Hand of Fate and check the result.

    I'd then spend a sugar lump (so I'd make sure to ascend with quite a few--probably 25 at a minimum) to refill my magic meter and check FtHoF again.

    Rinse and repeat.

    If you ever get "Sweet!", load your save from the start of the ascension (to get all those lumps back) and restart as normal. You'll get "Sweet!" every so often because you'll have the same Grimoire seed. Hit the Golden Switch, set Mokalsium/Jeremy/Selebrak (or, for faster lump harvesting, get to a multiple of 10 for buildings and set Rigidel/Mokalsium/Jeremy--when you're doing this, I'm assuming you don't care much about CpS because you have tons of prestige), and cycle through Force the Hand of Fate results (using Haggler's Charm to skip past ones that aren't "Sweet!"). You will have to keep the game open to let the magic meter refill, but you should get lumps a lot faster.

    If you don't get "Sweet!", restore to the pre-ascension save (or I guess the immediate post-ascension save) and ascend again to get a different Grimoire seed.

    And, of course, go full Elder Pact to maximise the chance of meaty lumps and savescum to get 2 lumps out of meaty and bifurcated lumps.

    Hooray for exploits!

    EDIT: Note: This method won't work (fully) if you have at least 152 magic with only 1 Wizard Tower, because lumps only refill 100 magic and with 152 magic FtHoF costs 101 magic.

    But if you have 152 magic with 1 Wizard Tower, your towers are at least at (I believe--I ran the numbers but don't recall them exactly) level 27,050, which means you've gotten something like 370 million lumps.

    So I'm not going to feel too sorry for you that you can't use this exploit.
    Post edited by dpareja on
  • RegianRegian Member Posts: 62
    Datrebor said:

    I clicked on a Golden Cookie and found a sugar lump. Cool.

    1 in 15000 chance. VEERY LUCKY.
    My account is deleted.
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