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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

Thoughts on going for the heavenly "hidden" lucky upgrades

bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 637 ✭✭✭
edited August 28 in General Discussion
The main benefit of getting these seems to me to be not the potential 3% increase in prestige multiplier, nor the effect on golden cookies, but the boost to the effect of Golden Switch. These three upgrades are counted in Residual Luck's effect on Golden Switch, bringing the number of such upgrades to 9, and increasing the potential GS boost from 2.1 to 2.4, i.e. an increase of 14%.

I managed to get these "hidden upgrades" in both the live and beta games, after a lot of frustration and missed opportunities, and a lot of staring at the screen. Later on I realised I could have done it with less stress by doing some fairly simple calculations.

To get all three of them - and you may as well get them all at once, since the condition for the third one implies that the conditions for the other two are satisfied - you must ascend with a prestige value ending in 777,777. That requires noting your exact current prestige (turn off short numbers), and then calculating what extra prestige you need to get on this run. If you are at this level of the game, the prestige will be increasing so fast that it's impossible to pick the exact moment to ascend unless you slow down the production by selling buildings. You don't want to do this too soon, though; you want to wait until you are fairly close to the desired figure before selling things off, otherwise you spend hours staring at the screen waiting. The temptation to speed things up by clicking cookies or reindeer, casting Conjure Baked Goods etc is almost irresistible, but do it at the wrong time and it will take your prestige just over the limit, forcing you to wait for another million prestige points to accrue.

If I were doing it again, I wouldn't spend time and nervous energy trying to speed up the process of getting to the point when I can shut things down. I'd just leave it idling, having done a rough calculation of when the prestige would be close to the required value so that shortly before that time I could start slowing down the production. I'd probably leave golden switch on and be in a season other than Christmas so I don't end up accidentally clicking on cookies or a reindeer. The wrinklers can stuff up the calculations mightily, so I'd have Elder Pledge, or perhaps even sell all the grannies, which seems the simplest way to stop the wrinklers spawning. All of this makes CpS a bit less than it could be, of course, but you only have to do this once, for one run.

OK... to calculate how long till the prestige reaches the correct value:

Current prestige (from previous runs) = Pc
Extra prestige so far this run = Pe
Prestige if I ascended now = Pc+Pe (call this Pn)
Additional prestige to get Lucky Payout = (777,777 - Pn) mod 1,000,000 = Pa
Prestige on ascension with Pa = Pn + Pa = P (this will end in 777777)
Ascend when the number in the prestige counter equals P - Pc.

Extra cookies required = (P^3-Pn^3) * 1 trillion
Divide this by current CpS to estimate the time.

Hypothetical example:

Current prestige = 111111111
Extra prestige so far this run = 222222
Total prestige now = 111333333
additional prestige required = 444444
prestige on ascending with extra = 111777777

extra cookies required = (111777777^3 - 111333333^3) * trillion
= 1.647 undecillion
Current CpS = 470 nonillion

This gives waiting time of 3505 seconds or about 58 minutes.

So at about the 55 minute mark I would start selling buildings and watching the prestige count to pick the right moment. The number to watch for in the counter is 111777777 - 111111111 = 666666.
Post edited by bob_32_116 on

Comments

  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 144 ✭✭
    What I found useful was to ascend when my prestige was just below the desired level. The slower production at the start of a run would let me fine-tune the prestige I needed. (Plus, an extra ascension toward those achievements.)
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 419 ✭✭✭
    How much are the upgrades Bob? I got the first one by accident on beta but never got any more.

  • dparejadpareja Member Posts: 144 ✭✭
    777, 77,777, and 77,777,777.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 637 ✭✭✭
    dpareja said:

    777, 77,777, and 77,777,777.

    Yes. So one thing I should have added is, of course make sure you have enough heavenly chips to purchase Lucky Payout before expending the sweat to ascend at the right moment to obtain it.
  • DrathukDrathuk Member Posts: 8
    edited August 28
    Also, selling all buildings and saving short of the required number is helpful if you don't consider that cheating. I didn't need the save, but nice insurance if I screwed up. Made it a tons less stressful.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 637 ✭✭✭
    Drathuk said:

    Also, selling all buildings and saving short of the required number is helpful if you don't consider that cheating. I didn't need the save, but nice insurance if I screwed up. Made it a tons less stressful.

    I suppose something can't be called cheating if it can be done by using the supplied Save function without using the game console. Still, whether it's cheating or not, for me it seems to take away the whole point, which is the challenge of picking the right moment without going too far.
    It reminds me of when my high school friend and I used to play chess. When one of us made a stupid blunder, we would generally allow them to take the move back so as not to "spoil the game". Eventually however we realised that it was encouraging both of us to take risks without properly thinking about the move, so it was spoiling the game in a different sense, and we made it a rule that moves should stand, just as in professional chess.

  • DrathukDrathuk Member Posts: 8
    I have no problem with that definition. Honestly, everything that is considered cheating or not in cookie clicker is in the eye of the beholder. I won't look down on save-scumming sugar lumps and freely admit to doing it because I feel this game is called cookie clicker and am disappointed the final 16 achievements I will attain have nothing to do with cookies. On the other hand, for some reason I'm unwilling to undo accidental expenditures of sugar lumps. To each their own, it's whatever you're comfortable with.
  • JezDavisJezDavis Member Posts: 146 ✭✭
    Also important not to forget the effect of the Chocolate egg.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 637 ✭✭✭
    edited August 29
    Jez said:

    Also important not to forget the effect of the Chocolate egg.

    Of course.

    I did not have it on either of my Lucky payout runs, but if I had, I would have cracked the egg early on so as not to have to worry about it afterwards. After all, the object on this particular run is not to make the most cookies in the run, but to simply ascend with the correct prestige.
    Post edited by bob_32_116 on
  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Member Posts: 102 ✭✭
    I normally don't save and reload to avoid bad random effects, but I'll occasionally refresh to undo a mistake, like selling 100 when I meant to buy 1. I kind of stretched that this time and refreshed to undo going over the target prestige. I figure it leads to a lower prestige level and CpS in the end so it's not too bad. But yeah, everyone defines cheating differently and it doesn't matter.

    I'd agree about the purpose of these upgrades being mainly for the golden switch. Adding 3% to the effect duration might help a bit too, so the frenzy doesn't end as soon during a building special + click frenzy when you have Mokalsium putting cookies farther apart.

    I misinterpreted the description and thought the +1% to heavenly chip power would make each heavenly chip worth 2%, then 3%, then 4%, rather than just multiplying the power by 1.01^3. Heavenly chips weren't always worth 1%, right? I think in the legacy beta they were 100% at one point, and then maybe 2%, and there was the whole thing with heavenly cookies where you had to decide whether to put your heavenly chips into upgrades or CpS.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 419 ✭✭✭
    tryna stay awake until I can hit those magic 7s

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