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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

When to stop buying buildings

bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
edited June 15 in General Discussion
Towards the end of a run, the question arises whether it is worth continuing to purchase buildings. Even though the extra production is small as a fraction of the total, it is still extra production, so there is no reason not to get it.

UNLESS you have Chocolate Egg. This releases extra cookies equal to 5% of the cookies at bank at the time of purchase of the egg.

People have realised that it's generally a good idea to purchase the egg at the very end of the run, and before doing so to invoke the Earth Shatterer aura then sell all buildings, which will dump 85% of their purchase price back into the bank.

What if the end of the run is some time off though? Those cookies you have in the bank will bring you an extra 5% at the end. On the other hand, if you use them to buy buildings now, at the end you will get back 85% of what you paid for them, and you will also have extra in the bank from the increased production. Should you buy, or just keep them in the bank?

Let's do the analysis:

Number of cookies available in bank = C
Time cost of buildings = T
Fraction of cost recouped by selling = f. If Earth Shatterer is active, f is equal to 0.85.
Estimated time till end of run = t

Buying buildings with those cookies will generate extra production dP = C/T
By the end of the run this will generate extra cookies Ct/T

This is to be compared against the decreased bonus from Choc Egg. Selling back those extra buildings at the end only returns f * C, so the loss in cookies-at-bank is (1-f)*C, and the lost bonus is 0.05*(1-f)*C

I should therefore buy buildings only if t/T > 0.05 * (1-f)
= 0.05 * 0.15 = 0.0075 with Earth Shatterer

The message here is pretty clear. When Choc egg is unlocked, estimate T and also t, the number of hours remaining for the run. I have an algebraic formula to estimate t, but otherwise just using the duration of previous runs as a guide. Once t becomes less than 0.0075T, which may be earlier than you think, stop buying buildings and just let those cookies pile up. (There may be an exception if you are aiming for a milestone such as 300 of some building which will give you an extra achievement and more milk.)
Post edited by bob_32_116 on

Comments

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    edited April 18
    Addendum:
    If you have Choc Egg unlocked and are at the stage where you should be saving cookies rather than buying buildings, this also means that there is no reason to pop wrinklers since you cannot do anything with the cookies they release. They should be left until the very end of the run before popping, unless of course you want to invoke Elder Pledge which will pop them whether you like it or not.
    Post edited by bob_32_116 on
  • 222lawlawlawl_games222lawlawlawl_games Member Posts: 303 ✭✭
    Neat! I like the math of cookie clicker. You should do a mega thread of all math for the game.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    edited April 21
    There is one already!

    http://forum.dashnet.org/discussion/14628/the-mathematics-of-cookie-clicker#latest

    I could have put this discussion there, but I thought it merited its own thread. The thing is, CC is ALL maths. Or mostly.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    edited April 24
    My current run is the first one where I have taken the presence of Chocolate Egg into account in order to decide whether to keep buying buildings. This point came about 50 hours after the start of the run. Getting building upgrades increases production, extends the time of the run, and extends the time for which buying is advantageous, but I only have one remaining upgrade to get - Spider Cookies. That will give me a 2% boost and mayextend the buying time enough to make it worth buying another prism, but after that I'll be just leaving cookies in the bank for the entire remainder of the run.

    That's quite a change, considering that I am only at 263 prisms and 5009 buildings in all. At the end of the previous run I had 292 prisms and 5305 buildings. It seems strange just doing nothing and watching cookies mount up in the bank, after so long being in the habit of waiting for the next building to become affordable and then buying it

    At some point I shall have to decide when it's worth trying for the 300 prisms at the end of the run. That will mean selling all buildings except the prisms, buying the prisms and then selling everything again, so I'll lose 15% on the prisms but 30% on everything else. the achievement will give me about an extra 2.3%. I did the calculations at the end of the last run and found I did not have enough assets to reach the 300 prism mark, and I don't think I could do it this run either, but I'll know for sure when I get to the end of the run.

    Post edited by bob_32_116 on
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    edited April 23
    The late game with Choc Egg is going to be incredibly boring. There is nothing to strive for, not even the next building. Apart from the occasional half hour of "active play", popping golden cookies and reindeer, there is nothing to do except pop the wrinklers every now and then to check the cookies tally and find how close one is to the end of the run.

    The hardest lesson to learn, and I remember saying this once before on the forum, is that sometimes the best way to get the most cookies in the shortest time is to simply do nothing.

    Fortunately there is more to life than Cookie Clicker. :)
    Post edited by bob_32_116 on
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    Choc Egg changes things quite a lot. My run just completed, which was run 23, was the first one in which I made FEWER cookies than in the one preceding it. That may sound strange, but it was also significantly shorter than the preceding one. On run 23 I made 9.6 dec cookies in 342 hours, compared with 12.6 dec cookies in 442 hours on run 22.

    As always, I ascended when the production gain from prestige exceeded the ratio of current production to average production. Up to now, this has resulted in a general trend of runs getting slightly longer, as well as, obviously, more productive. The reason this run was shorter was because I cashed in Choc Egg at the end of the run - the first time I have done this since I didn't know about it before. Run 23 was less productive, both in terms of total cookies produced and average CpS for the run; however terminating it early was worth it because of the increased production for the present run.

    The interesting thing is that now my spreadsheet is predicting the duration of the current run at only 206 hours, a substantial drop from the last one. That suits me. Long runs are very boring.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 448 ✭✭✭
    Agreed, I'm running my beta out at the moment to get to 300 prisms and would nor mall have ascended a day or two ago. However I'm too busy with uni work to sit through a reset right now anyway so I don't mind if it keeps running for another week.

    I wonder how much different your data would look if you have realised the benefits of the choco egg strategy sooner?

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭


    I wonder how much different your data would look if you have realised the benefits of the choco egg strategy sooner?

    When I finally decide I have had enough of the end-game, I may start CC all over again, having learnt from the mistakes of the first time - things like not knowing about Choc Egg, not knowing about various easy achievements like hardcore, that sort of thing. Or I may decide I've had enough of it. I wish there was a way to play two instances of CC at the same time on the same PC, but the problem is that the browser always saves the cache to the same place, so if the game crashed for any reason you would only be able to retrieve the last one saved, the other would be lost completely.

    Sometimes i look back nostalgically on the heady early days of playing the game. I was not playing optimally, but the learning was fun. I suppose it's a bit like fond memories of childhood, school outings, summer holidays, first kiss, that sort of thing. You remember those things fondly but you can never really relive them.

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    Actually, I just realised I can run two CC games side by side, because I have two different browsers - Firefox and Seamonkey - and they store their cache in different places. (I have tested it.) So I think that's what I'll do; when I have a dull moment I'll start a second instance of the game. I probably won't do that until I get the last prism achievement though.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Member Posts: 448 ✭✭✭
    You don't even need to do that, just give your bakeries different names and use the "save file" option regularly

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    edited May 7

    You don't even need to do that, just give your bakeries different names and use the "save file" option regularly

    Can't be bothered. Invariably, no matter how often I back up something, the times when it crashes are invariably the times when it's a while since the last backup, for the simple reason that I have concentrating on stuff other than backups, such as playing the game itself. :)

    That's another reason why I think the 60-second save should have the option of saving to file instead of to cache. It would save so much heartache.

    Anyway, right now I'm running v.2.002 and v.2.002 beta side by side, both on Seamonkey; they save to different cache locations. I'm just hoping that the beta version does not get removed at some stage, as it seems redundant now that 2.002 is the live version.

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Member Posts: 660 ✭✭✭
    I found a mistake in the original post - now fixed.

    The time to stop buying buildings is when the time remaining is less than 0.0075T, not 0.15T. This makes quite a difference.
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