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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

Cremation

geekahedrongeekahedron Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
It would help clean things up quite a bit, especially late in the game when land usage is at a premium, to dispose of corpses in some way other than occupying a grave for a few decades.
For example: Crematorium as building occupies 1 land, and uses 1 worker and 1 fire pit, to dispose of 1 corpse per day.
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  • E_ZE_Z Member Posts: 14

    It would help clean things up quite a bit, especially late in the game when land usage is at a premium, to dispose of corpses in some way other than occupying a grave for a few decades.
    For example: Crematorium as building occupies 1 land, and uses 1 worker and 1 fire pit, to dispose of 1 corpse per day.

    This is a great idea especially when considering what can be done with traits, additional research and so on. There are so many great ideas in this forum and I try not to concentrate on anything that will likely be resolved as the game progresses (we ARE still running an ALPHA game on patch 6 after all).
    The following may very well draw from or duplicate “someone else’s idea.” My posts are already too long to quote/credit the many individuals and I am sure the developers will know where to turn for questions or kudos. I take no credit for anything that “sounds familiar” to anyone reading it and offer my humblest of apologies to the creators of these ideas. I am simply putting them all in this one post as I see them pertain to this topic and offer them up for further discussion. I am looking forward to what direction the developers are going to take us in.
    Crematorium – as a building requires one or all of the following?
    • 1 land, uses I worker and an active fire pit (unlocked after researching Burial?)
    • Not sure how or if the building effects Ritual Necrophagy or Fear of Death traits or what other traits would result from it
    • I think this should negate any benefits of any “cannibalism” discussed elsewhere
    • If religions are adopted, this building could be required by or maybe not available to each
    Cremation – as an additional technology (like Burial)
    • Unlocks the Crematorium as described above
    • And/or Grave is replaced with a “Cremating the Dead” option (like Cook) for a Firekeeper and X workers/corpse to stop and “mourn” (as if they were ill or injured but w/ 100% chance of recovery) for X days before going back to whatever they were doing (hopefully even the Firekeeper)
    • Or “Cremating the Dead” is a separate button with similar function requiring 1 worker and 1 or no land.
    • Maybe a “Cremating the Dead” button is only available if your civ researches Fire-Making before Digging?
    • If your civ researches Fire-Making before Digging you can ONLY cremate? (Bury it? Why?)
    • May require your civ to always have a fire (or X fires) going or only available if a fire is active for X years
    • May require Carving, Basket-Weaving, Pottery or similar
    • Will Cremation and Burial be allowed to happen at the same time? If so, will it cause “civil unrest” without strong leadership or spiritual guidance to squelch it down? Oh the possibilities of this game…
  • geekahedrongeekahedron Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    I've given it some more thought as to how to balance it; if it's a binary decision between burial or cremation then cremation is the clear winner. It could balance the land usage some if there was a higher cost to cremating a body, perhaps a pyre that requires logs, and/or an altar that requires an offering of food, gems, etc? The ideas of occupying workers for some time is interesting too. I'm modding up some options to see how they work in actual gameplay.
  • SekhmetSekhmet Member Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Cremation would be really powerful. It should be hard to unlock. Like advanced traits or religious buildings...

    In the same idea, I was thinking about cemetaries (multiple people in a single spot): honestly, one spot for a *single* corpse, it is really wasting... when you think that one spot can host 10 living people.
  • E_ZE_Z Member Posts: 14
    Sekhmet said:

    Cremation would be really powerful. It should be hard to unlock. Like advanced traits or religious buildings...

    In the same idea, I was thinking about cemetaries (multiple people in a single spot): honestly, one spot for a *single* corpse, it is really wasting... when you think that one spot can host 10 living people.

    I never considered "land use" figuring it would work itself out as the game progressed. Since I am not smart enough to mod myself, please let me humbly suggest what comes to mind to add to your creative process.
    Some thoughts on adding cremation and tweaking Burial Spot
    • "Burial Spot" remains as is (described as a large burial cairn, I guess?) until a new "Spiritualism/Culture" maybe? tech is researched to unlock "Cemeteries"
    • "Headstones" Made by Carvers from Cut Stone increase the # of Corpses/Burial Spot by X/ Headstone (Replaces Burial Cairns with smaller Mausoleums)
    • "Cemeteries" Use 1 land, maybe 1 worker (perpetual care)?, hold X corpses. Could provide small Spiritualism or Culture boost/worker "visiting"
    • If you consider a "headstone" in a modern, single-person-scenario, then I see Headstones being a prerequisite for Cemeteries, BUT If you look at the original Burial Spot as a Cairn (simple justification for the land use for 1 Corpse) then maybe "Family Headstones" are needed for the "Mausoleums" (not individual graves) that are built in the Cemeteries. I make this point only because if it is easier to code one tech to reach development before the other, it can be justified.
    • What may help balance the tech a little would be if Cremated Corpses decayed at a much slower rate requiring less space but for longer periods of time? Would require tracking the Land use over time for separate "cremains" if both burial and cremating is allowed.
    • Cremation may require a new building "Columbarium" to hold the remains of X Corpses, Requiring 1 land, X Basic Building Material?, and what else? X Marble?, X Precious Building Material?, X Gold Blocks, X Gem Blocks? Like visiting a Cemetery, stopping by the Columbarium could provide a Spiritualism or Culture boost for each worker/day
    There you have it people. Easy for me to type out here in this post because I do not code. So I leave it for the talented to take or leave. Thank you again for putting up with me taking up your space.
    I am looking forward to play-testing the next patch!
  • DoomlordKravokaDoomlordKravoka Member, Wiener Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ossuary

    Requires: 40 basic materials. 1 person as a worker.
    Provides: 100 graves.
    Occasionally generates Faith and Culture.
  • E_ZE_Z Member Posts: 14
    edited April 9
    It looks like this one is made of BONES! (NOT a suggestion for the game, just a note of an awesome pic!) Thank you


    Ossuary

  • geekahedrongeekahedron Member Posts: 26 ✭✭
    I've modded a few different implementations of cremation and it is quite powerful.
    I've added a new unit to perform the cremation or added a mode to the firekeeper (mechanically, those are identical) which can somewhat imbalancing, unless the cost is rather high. I changed the new unit from a crematorium to a pyre, with a usage cost of 20 logs per corpse, and that seems to work relatively well. Ultimately I converted the burned corpses into urns, requiring logs and pottery, which could provide some sort of spiritual benefit as well? It's still not ideal to reinvent the entire process, now that I'm attempting it.

    Part of the problem, I think, is that the current implementation of graves is flawed; a certain amount of land dedicated to graves which can dispose of bodies and be reused over time, is actually a fine idea. In practice, though, the graves don't allow for reuse, or not nearly quickly enough to keep up with larger endgame populations once land is capped.

    Bottom line to any solution is that, with a large enough population and enough time, you will eventually have more corpses in your society's history than the land can hold, whether it's 1 or 100 bodies per land, without a working method of disposing, burning, or decomposing them (or reusing them, eg necrophagy).

    I'm going to dig into the code a bit more to figure out how to fix or improve the existing grave system, rather than necessarily replacing it altogether. A cemetery, or a cairn (or mausoleum, except for the unfortunate naming of the first wonder) are good ideas to work with.
  • NoahBogueNoahBogue Member Posts: 4
    I think it could be a good idea to make architects for graves: standards architects don't burry the corpses. I think Orteil could also add the bureaucracy: it will generate influence with a new work (official), it can add more options for policies and it can generate (not many) insight in brainstorming. Ah, and please add traits as "Gender theory" or "Polygamy/Polyandry".
  • ¤RunninginReverse¤¤RunninginReverse¤ Member, Friendly Posts: 15,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NoahBogue said:

    I think it could be a good idea to make architects for graves: standards architects don't burry the corpses. I think Orteil could also add the bureaucracy: it will generate influence with a new work (official), it can add more options for policies and it can generate (not many) insight in brainstorming. Ah, and please add traits as "Gender theory" or "Polygamy/Polyandry".

    What would the added traits do?

    Also, please create separate threads for unrelated suggestions.
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