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The Off Topic section is not meant for discussing Cookie Clicker.

The Non-Cheaters Thread

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Comments

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I have been expecting the runs to get shorter, reasoning that I would reach the plateau phase of production quicker each time. So far however I am not seeing any such trend. Apart from the first run, which was an exceptional case, the runs have varied in length between about 100 hours and 200 hours. The most recent run, which was run 17, was another long one: 230 hours.

  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I find that I don't achieve anything now (run 53) unless it plays for at least 500h. I'm basically aiming for an extra 2.5 million prestige points every time, with a current total of 64.379 million.
  • ssj3gogetassj3gogeta Posts: 1Member
    I need one of your guys opinion should i wait to get the next upgrade for ascension, need to get 3 prestiges to get it btw, it is the 10% permanent cookie boosts, or should i prestige once per ascension or wait till i have prestige 3 times?
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭

    I need one of your guys opinion should i wait to get the next upgrade for ascension, need to get 3 prestiges to get it btw, it is the 10% permanent cookie boosts, or should i prestige once per ascension or wait till i have prestige 3 times?

    You need to explain a bit better. What upgrade are you referring to? A building upgrade? A heavenly upgrade? What do you mean by "prestige once per ascension"?

    What we need to know in order to help:
    - Current prestige level
    - Extra prestige points earned so far this run
    - What upgrade you are aiming for
    - How much you need (cookies? prestige points?) to get it.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 398Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1
    I don't know how it all works, but I ascended yesterday and my multiplier is now up to 85.65 trillion% just from the extra 10 million prestige. So it was a bit of a mistake letting it run for 3 months trying to get to 100dec (only got to about 50dec in about 2400 hours). I'm going to start screencapping to compare CPS as well.



  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    I just noticed, to my amusement, that Legacy started 4,276 hours ago, and total cookies all time is currently 4.276 decillion!
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 398Member ✭✭✭
    I got my second shiny wrinkler after 5890 odd hours of playing. This is the first one since the V.2.002 update so it is safe to leave it for a while. I normally pop them after 12 hours so I'll let this one feed for a couple of days.

    I think it is also time to look into implementing Bob's CPS over time strategy to see when the good time to ascend is.

  • sky_shrimpsky_shrimp Posts: 47Member ✭✭
    edited January 14
    I'm on 126 dec CBAT atm with 712 sep a second (with BoM and RA) which becomes 5 oct during a frenzy. Hitting 1 oct a second (idle) seems like the minimum which will take a few more ascensions. I don't think the game will 'appear' to go faster until I'm getting at least 25 oct during a frenzy which would take many months. That would mean I'd need 3.5 mill a second idle.

    My prestige level is 47.7 mill, so I'll wait until I've attained a legacy of 4.7 mill as a minimum before acending. That should make me go about 10% faster on the next ascension. 15% would be ideal and 20% would be great. Continuing over 20% seems pointless as ascending would be more beneficial.

    I use One Mind and only hit red cookies if I'm on a frenzy. If there's no frenzy from a golden cookie, I ignore the red cookie.
  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭
    This is me at present. Achieving 2 million prestige takes approximately two weeks. To achieve 6.4 million (i.e. 10% of present total) would take 2-3 months and be counterproductive in terms of progression.

    The further on you get, the more you need to downwardly-adjust your percentage targets.


  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 398Member ✭✭✭
    Jez said:

    This is me at present. Achieving 2 million prestige takes approximately two weeks. To achieve 6.4 million (i.e. 10% of present total) would take 2-3 months and be counterproductive in terms of progression.

    The further on you get, the more you need to downwardly-adjust your percentage targets.


    If you have 28dec in 380 hours, it will only take another 750 hours or so to get to 100dec. Is the extra prestige from ascending every 2.5M better than waiting to get another 4% milk boost (considering you'll also get a better prestige boost out of it)?

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    Jez said:


    The further on you get, the more you need to downwardly-adjust your percentage targets.

    Exactly. As borne out by the purple bar graph I posted on page 3 of this thread.
  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭



    If you have 28dec in 380 hours, it will only take another 750 hours or so to get to 100dec. Is the extra prestige from ascending every 2.5M better than waiting to get another 4% milk boost (considering you'll also get a better prestige boost out of it)?

    Not in this case, no. You're right, I think I'll wait for the 100 dec this time. But it's taken a few ascensions to get to a CPS where the 100 dec was worth targetting.

  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    Although I initially forecast that the runs would get shorter over time, I am now of the opinion that they will continue to get longer. This is because the best point at which to ascend is when the ratio of current CpS over average Cps for the run drops below the prestige boost that will come from the next ascension. At a given point in a run, as measured by the number of hours since the start of the run, the prestige boost is smaller for later runs, because the prestige is only proportional to the cube root of the total cookies baked. Hence, I need to wait longer for ascension since I need the current/average ratio to fall below this number.
  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Posts: 88Member ✭✭
    I've started using an unusual strategy in the late game, taking advantage of the fact that achievements and heavenly chips are based on cookies baked, not cookies in bank. Costs are irrelevant and only production matters, once you get to a point in the run where buildings are basically unaffordable and you're just grinding for weeks at a time.

    So I started doing things like turning on the golden switch before clicking a cookie that I think will be Lucky.

    Normally a Lucky during a Frenzy gives you 1h45min of production. If you flip the golden switch after it appears but before you click it, that goes up by 2.1× to give you 3h40min30s of production. Flipping the switch on during the frenzy and off after the frenzy costs 9h6min of production. So this isn't worth it in terms of net cookies, but it does cause your CBTA number to go up faster.

    (It also makes golden cookies appear a bit less often if you wait until the frenzy is over to cancel the golden switch. If you cancel it right away instead, the cost to cancel it goes from 2h6min to 14h42min, which I think is a bit too much.)

    I'm doing this on my run going for 100 decillion. I don't think it would be very useful until maybe the 1 decillion run, since before that it's probably better to save up for buildings.

    Another result of thinking this way is that wrath cookies aren't so bad, because a ruin is basically meaningless. It takes cookies out of your bank but doesn't decrease the CBTA number.
  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭
    Sounds like a strategy that hinges heavily on active play. Personally I'm only at a computer for a few minutes at a time (apart from weekends) so I have the Golden Switch permanently on with predominantly passive play.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 21
    "Costs are irrelevant and only production matters,"

    Well no, not really, costs are still relevant, unless you have so many cookies in the bank that you can afford to turn golden switch on and off lots of times. If you do have a very large "bank balance" then yes, your strategy makes a certain amount of sense, but it does assume active play. Not just active, but very vigilant.

    I think the problem is that in the early stages of a run, lots of things are happening and people don't mind sitting waiting for golden cookies while they are doing other things like buying buildings and upgrades. People don't mind being vigilant, in fact they enjoy it. In the end stages, I don't think most people have the patience to continually watch the screen. I certainly don't. I occasionally have times when I expect to be seated at the 'puter for 30 mins or 60 mins, and on those occasions I will turn off Golden Switch, get Elder Pledge and get a few golden cookie clicks to boost my overall tally. At other times, the Golden Switch stays on permanently. Turning it off and on costs 3.1 hours of normal production (only 2.6 if you turn it back on during a clot), plus 1.1 hours for every hour the switch is off, so I don't do it unless I am definitely going to commit to watching the screen vigilantly for the duration - and most times it's a relief when the Elder Pledge finally runs out and I can wait for a clot, turn the GS back on, and relax and walk away. Once or twice I have been lucky enough to get a Cursed Finger instead of a clot, allowing me to turn the switch back on for no cost, but I don't recommend holding your breath for that.
  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Posts: 88Member ✭✭
    I don't think it relies on a very active playstyle. I play maybe an hour or two per week, and I leave the golden switch on the rest of the time. You do have to watch or listen for golden cookies though, and also watch for the end of frenzies. I'm at a stage where it takes three days to make enough to buy a prism, and it'll never pay itself off, so I don't mind using up some of the cookies in bank for this.

    I guess buying buildings that will never pay themselves off is sort of the same strategy. It increases gross production, while decreasing what's left in the bank.
  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭
    I think there's some confusion here, golden cookies don't appear while the switch is turned 'On'.

    Out of interest, how much is it going to cost you to buy your next prism?
  • MolotoMoloto Posts: 7Member
    I don't use anything, not even macros but to be honest people cheating in this game isn't too bad if you've either done everything or you dislike clicking.
  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Posts: 88Member ✭✭
    Jez said:

    I think there's some confusion here, golden cookies don't appear while the switch is turned 'On'.

    Out of interest, how much is it going to cost you to buy your next prism?

    Right, the trick is to turn the golden switch on after a golden cookie has appeared but before clicking it, and then turn it off soon after.

    I have 300 prisms, so my next one will be 3.267 decillion. My CpS is 1.45 octillion, with breath of milk, radiant appetite, arcane sugar and golden switch, so counting wrinklers that's about one decillion per day.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 22
    My 19th run is a LOT longer than Run 18, and I am not sure why. Run 17 was 230 hours, run 18 was 236 hours, this run is up to 350 hours and not finished yet.

    As you know, I ascend at about the point when the prestige boost from the run becomes equal to the ratio of current production to average production. Since I reached the end-game phase the time taken to reach thois point has been getting longer - not so surprising - but the prestige boost has also been decreasing. This time though it's set to increases again, and I am certainly not complaining but I cannot figure out why. The only explanation I can think of is that I may have had more active play sessions - the figure for current production is only the production from buildings and "egg", while the average production is derived from all cookies made, including from Lucky Cookies, reindeer etc. Still, I do not feel as though I have been doing more active play, so it's a bit of a mystery.

    Run 16:
    Hours: 190
    Prisms: 271
    Prestige boost at end: 1.37

    Run 17:
    Hours: 230
    Prisms: 276
    Prestige boost at end: 1.30


    Run 18:
    Hours: 236
    Prisms: 279
    Prestige boost at end: 1.22


    Run 19:
    Hours: 353+
    Prisms: 283+
    Prestige boost at end: 1.22+


  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭

    Right, the trick is to turn the golden switch on after a golden cookie has appeared but before clicking it, and then turn it off soon after.

    I have 300 prisms, so my next one will be 3.267 decillion. My CpS is 1.45 octillion, with breath of milk, radiant appetite, arcane sugar and golden switch, so counting wrinklers that's about one decillion per day.

    Interesting approach. If you find that's economical then fair enough.

    At present I'm at 298 Prisms with a CPS of 2.395 Oct, counting wrinklers that gives 1.7 Dec per day. You obviously have your reasons but if I were you I'd ascend pretty soon because with the time it's taken you to get to 300 there must be a lot of Prestige going unclaimed. When you add that in, the next time you reach 300 (if you choose to go that high again next incarnation, I haven't bothered to go to 300 for about three or four incarnations now) you'll probably have a CPS somewhere near 1.8 Oct.

  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Posts: 88Member ✭✭


    As you know, I ascend at about the point when the prestige boost from the run becomes equal to the ratio of current production to average production.

    Jez said:


    You obviously have your reasons but if I were you I'd ascend pretty soon because with the time it's taken you to get to 300 there must be a lot of Prestige going unclaimed.

    Do you guys take achievements into account when deciding this?

    In the late game with few achievements left, I just look at how long it'll take to get the next one. So I would ascend if the prestige boost is more than the ratio of the goal to what I have left. Right now I'm at about 66 decillion, 2/3 of the way to my goal, so at this point I would only ascend if I could triple my prestige.

    I guess for anything but the last achievement, this might not be the best since you want to increase prestige for later, but it just seems like a waste in the short term to reset your progress toward the next achievement. I have 102 ascensions, and I think my previous run was for 300 prisms (around 20 decillion I think). My next run I'll go for the undecillion (although I don't know if I'll have the patience to stick with it), since there'll never be a point where resetting gives enough prestige boost to make it faster.
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    ^^ "Resetting your progress towards the next achievement" is not necessarily a bad thing. Sure, you want to get that achievement as soon as possible. the question is, which will give it to you sooner - waiting, and allowing cookies to accrue at the current production rate, or ascending, losing everything and starting fromscratch, but with faster production from enhanced prestige? Which strategy is best will depend on the particular situation.

    Andto answer your question, I have just been taking achievements as they come rather than monitoring how far I am away from the next one. Although I do lots of calculations on my spreadsheet, I do not take into account upcoming achievements or upcoming heavenly upgrades. That may not be the best strategy, but at this stage of the game I am getting these so infrequently that it's probably not making much difference.
  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Posts: 88Member ✭✭
    In my case for the last couple achievements (other than Black cat's paw which I just got), it's always been better to wait in order to get the next achievement sooner.

    Anyway I know you do quite a bit of analysis, so if you find that ascending more often is the best, I believe you. Achievements only give about a 0.4% benefit, once you have about 250 of them, no matter how many kittens you have, so for long-term analysis it probably makes sense to ignore them.

    One other thing I've noticed (which you may have already talked about) is that the rate of getting heavenly chips slows down in the endgame. This makes sense because of the cube root thing, I think there's some calculus you can do to show it. So there's an optimal time to go for 100 ascensions, which I think is around the 5-10 million prestige level.
  • adam_antichristadam_antichrist Posts: 398Member ✭✭✭
    After I got 300 prisms, the only achievements left are 100 dec, 1 undec and ascend with 1 undec. They aren't going to factor in too much anymore since without another version update it will take about 1 year to get to 1undec

  • AudiotAudiot Posts: 95Member ✭✭
    I've restarted and played every update separately since 1.0477 or whatever it was. I never used cheats or addons because Oteil is always watching o.o Although I did abuse the bugs whenever I found them (HC giving +100% instead of 1%). Personally I like to use the wayback machine archive to get back to that specific beta because the bug makes it a lot less grindy and I like active playing more than idling.
    For to be of not wanting specifications. We just gotta!
  • ChocolateMachineChocolateMachine Posts: 88Member ✭✭
    Audiot said:

    Personally I like to use the wayback machine archive to get back to that specific beta

    I never thought of that! archive.org is great
  • bob_32_116bob_32_116 Posts: 608Member ✭✭✭
    Audiot said:

    I've restarted and played every update separately since 1.0477 or whatever it was. I never used cheats or addons because Oteil is always watching o.o Although I did abuse the bugs whenever I found them (HC giving +100% instead of 1%). Personally I like to use the wayback machine archive to get back to that specific beta because the bug makes it a lot less grindy and I like active playing more than idling.

    It's not exactly cheating, I suppose. As long as you're up front about the fact that you are actually playing a different game.

  • JezJez Posts: 127Member ✭✭
    edited January 28
    Why can I not delete this f**king comment?
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